and I am not in any way trying to be sarcastic. What is the objection? Is it his off court behavior? All I can come up with was a reckless driving charge and some speeding tickets. Personally I will live with this past indiscretions and some flare ups with coaches for a chance to compete this year. If he shows up and has an attitude or doesn’t fit in, you send him packing. Paul is a leader and a guy other NBA’ers respect. I think he could keep the guy in check.
See: bolts and my exchange on the thread that spawned this
It all comes to how you interpret JR’s actions. Reckless driving led to the death of a friend (obviously not intentional) but there are questions about JR’s behavior as he received 2 more speeding tickets before he even went on trial for the accident that killed his friend. I called it negligent, but others called it sociopathic. If you’re with the latter party, then that might be enough to get this guy on your “never play for my team” list, regardless of how good he is. Most aren’t really getting into his on-court behavior (i.e. fighting with coaches) as I don’t think it’s considered that bad compared to some other players with stronger personalities.
Or option #3: JR might not choose the Clippers at all!
I know JR will be an excellent pickup (if the chemistry works out) and his help is more needed than ever with Billups injury.. but everybody around here is talking like we already own him… lets not get ahead of ourselves and be Clipper fans again (expect the worst but hope something better happens)… we are not the only club who would welcome his services.. other clubs might offer him more money/incentives
If NY starts losing again and we keep winning. When JR comes back he’s gonna be looking for not just money, but the best opportunity to showcase his talent for a contract this summer. If we are poised to be a top seed in th west he may decide to take less money for the opportunity to make a deep playoff run, as opposed to a one and done (or maybe no playoffs at all) with the Knicks.
It also helps that we have a pass first All Star PG.
You make a good point and if I were Smitty I would do just that.
Meaning, take less money to get on a team that has potential. He could get major playing minutes and possibly be a starter. He can create his own plays and shots so why not get some national attention while doing it.
I know I’m posting a bunch on the Clippers blog today so just to make this clear, I’m a Nuggets fan but I was happy to see the Clippers get to do some good stuff instead of languishing like they have been. I won’t be a fanboy buying a Chris Paul jersey and say that I’ve been a lifelong Clippers fan but its nice to see an underdog make a play.
actually...if he just wants to show off for a new contract
NYK might be the place to do it…..
JR can just do what he does best (offense) in the D’antoni system…and he will probably take little flack for losing any games. the blame will all be on either D’Antoni, Melo, STAT, or managment…not on him. so he can be as free as he wants, on and off the court. he has the most opportunity to put up a lot of offense to get teams interested in him if he plays in NYK…whether the Knicks win or lose
…..if he signs with the Clips and the Clips start losing, people will blame Smith. calling him the cancer that ruined Lob City
He can make twice as much with Minnesota who needs a SG or NY Knicks. He strikes me as someone who looks at the bottom line of who can offer me the most $ over the team’s potential success, potential teammates, etc
you offer me 2.5 mil vs 1.1 mil, I’m taking 2.5 — especially after being stuck in China
People are (perhaps correctly) under the presumption that he’s a self-fish player. It wouldn’t hurt to join a team that wins and gives the illusion that he can be a team player.
If he’s trying to play for a new contract and get himself seen, LA is the place to be. This year, anyway. It all depends how well we are playing come March/April/whenever he’s available.
It’s pro-rated salary, so the dollar difference isn’t as much. Without pro-ration, the difference is $1.4mil. With a 35-game pro-ration (number of games after the All Star Break), that drops to $747k. Then what if his Chinese team makes the playoffs? With a 25-game pro-ration (March 15th onward), it’s down to $530k. And what if they go deep into the playoffs and he’s there til April? With a 14-game-pro-ration, the difference is almost nothing at under $300k.
I don’t think money is going to play a huge factor here.
We should post one lob city hightlight a day on his twitter… give him what i call the " lob city itch" (something KMart had been suffering during his time off) by the time he comes back to the US he will be itching for the Clippers regardless how much money the other teams are giving him
But I’m not in the agreement that we NEED him. We can win without him and we don’t need to be like the Yankees, buying more and more headline players. As the Yankees have attested to, it doesn’t necessarily mean championships. I do have faith in Foye doing his duty.
However, Smith would be a good player to have, provided he comes here at the right price and behaves.
What happened to the front office’s pledge to bring in good character guys? Now we’re right back to the Ricky Davis days? Great.
JR Smith is easily one of the most selfish players in the league. He’ll come in here after jacking up shot after shot in China thinking that he’s going to do the same thing and be the #1 option. It’s hilarious to me that anyone thinks that he’ll reign it in out of nowhere. He’s not about winning. Never has been about winning. He’s always been about one thing – getting his.
I’m not talking about off-court issues. I’m talking about ON-COURT selfishness that is horrible for chemistry as well as wins & losses.
Great points and I totally agree. I’m a no.
There have been a lot of changes in the last 2 months at our ball club and we our just in the process at the moment of finding out who we are. We have two selfless leaders in Cp3 and Caron and this signing would go against the team first ethic we are trying to build. That has never been JR’s thing.
I’ve been around…just not a whole lot to say. Plus, some of these threads are getting super long where I just don’t feel like going back and reading 200 comments on something. I guess that’s the “downside” of this team’s popularity. Good to see you around though. You were gone a while too.
Well, things have certainly changed around here since Clippers went global! Not always for the better either.
Didn’t feel like contributing during the lockout and now there are so many threads. No point in trying to contribute something to them all so often just read what the old school and the new “fans” are typing. Unless TimKempton is posting then I can’t resist!
We had him well past his prime. But I was addressing the point that Ricky was a bad character; he was a great locker room presence during his tenure here
I teeter-tottered back and forth, but I definitely say yes (right now lol). It’s possible that we can make a trade for something/someone else, but signing Smith is the best way to fill in some holes of the team without giving anything up. He has played with 4 players (including Billups) and there would be some immediate comfort because of that.
For Smith’s benefit, he gets the opportunity to step into a significant role on a winning team that may very well be in contention for a title. The Knicks are fighting for the last spot in the playoffs and putting all of their hopes into Jeremy Lin and an injured Baron Davis. If they do make the playoffs, can they get past the Heat or Bulls? Probably not.
The downside is that he is taking the minimum, and an agent doesn’t want his client to establish himself as a minimum contract player, because it can hurt future contracts. I just think that it is a risk that he has to take.
My only concern is that he’s clearly going to be playing for his next contract and how he reacts/plays to that could be great or could be bad, who knows. The good thing is we’re going to have at least a week or a lot more to see if we really need him or not while he’s in China.
what is happening to the analysis on this blog. yea let’s add a showboat ball hog to our team. Has anyone even broken down what jr smith adds to our team? We already have jump shooters, until someone makes a decent argument for what smith adds to our team this is just blind hype. Does he play defense… no. Does he rebound… no, can he take 20 shots a game.. yes can he pass the ball … no what is all the love for this dude about?
Because people want a scorer. They don’t seem to see the negatives to his game, just that he could score 25 points in a night. The fact that he could throw up 20 shots to get it and contribute nothing much else doesn’t seem to be getting much analysis
Chauncey Billups was shooting 35% before his injury and shoots 41% for his career. J.R shoots 42% for his career and 43.5 his last season. Chauncey has a higher TS% (due to his FTs) but a lower eFG% due to JR being better from 3.
JR grabbed 6 boards per 36 mins his last season however his numbers would probably be closer to his career average of 4.2 if he were playing for the Clippers. Chauncey had 3 rebounds per 36 mins.
Chauncey wins on assists with 4.7 per 36 mins to JR’s 3.2. But JR gets 1.7 steals per 36 to Chauncey’s .5 (1.1 for his career)
Defensively J.R. has 3-4 inches on Chauncey and can guard taller players more effectively. He is also more athletic and would do better on quicker players. Chauncey is definitely the smarter player and would draw more fouls (as displayed by his TS%).
For the advanced stats their JR’s per last season is about the same as Chauncey’s this season and their WS/48 is about the same.
I think overall, basketballwise they are probably going to give you similar contributions. JR with a few more rebounds, 3s, and steals… Chauncey with a few more assists and FTs.
Who won’t be able to guard anyone effectively. Steals can be a very misleading stat as passing lane gambles can lead to a defensive mess.
Sure, I don’t doubt the shooting stats for a moment but you can’t show stats for being a selfish player or a disruptive influence. That is my problem with this potential signing. Chemistry.
His Defense rating last year was 106 and has been improving every year he’s been in the league. For comparison Billups was 111 this season and 113 last season with a career rating of 107. Caron Butler last year was 106 and this year it is 108 with a career of 107. Randy Foye is 107 this year (112 career). Mo Williams is 108 this year (110 career). Dwayne wade is 98 this season (103 career), Kobe is 102 this year (105 for his career), Aaron Afflalo is 107 (110 for his career).
DRtg isn’t the most accurate stat, but if he was as bad a defender as you claim it would be more obvious in the stats.
Synergy rated Smith as the worst defender in the league last season. I don’t think he was that bad, but he certainly wasn’t good. While Smith has the size and physical skills to defend well, he’s inattentive, takes bad gambles and doesn’t play hard. He ranked eighth at his position in steals per minute, but only by taking a lot of low-risk gambles that saw him beaten repeatedly. His improved rebounding last season (sixth among shooting guards) may be a sign that he’s putting a bit more effort into the defensive end, but relative to every other player in the league he still has a long way to go.
He guards Kobe pretty well here. He has the ability to be a good defender and has been improving over the years. Will VDN be the coach that motivates him on the defensive end? Probably not, but I don’t think he’s as big a liability as you say (especially compared to Foye and Mo) and unlike Foye… JR actually has an offensive game.
Also I remember him not getting along with Byron Scott (but then again who did?)
But he seemed to be fine with George Karl. I don’t remember him complaining about being a 6th man or not having starter minutes. JR’s role would mostly be to stretch the offense and be a spot up shooter… so in that sense he should be playing selfishly. Caron Butler technically plays selfishly but it’s okay because that is the role he is meant to play on the team.
IF he were to have a special or our very base year contract AND Chauncey and Chris Paul sign off on this AND JR agrees to be mentored by Chauncey and Chauncey agrees to it, making him apprentice of sorts. Then I say yes.
If JR were to turn dedicated, he could be a borderline all-star. But him being dedicated is spl far
need a 2/3 who can defend bigger guys, not a bigger version of mo williams with a worse attitude. I think signing smith would be convenient and that’s why everyone likes it so much, but we are trying to build a contender not just try to out score everyone. Need a defensive stopper in the rotation somewhere this looks like the best opportunity to find one and make whoever it is a part of the rotation.
It’s written like someone commented on Facebook without any knowledge of basketball, just saying the usual, “Lakers get everyone because DUH everyone wants to be a Laker.” So Smith doesn’t care about money or playing time, he just wants to be a Laker and play alongside (a.k.a. behind) Kobe. Right. He goes from scoring 30ppg to being Kobe’s backup? With Kobe being the league’s current scoring leader, and them playing the exact same position, that’s kind of silly. Smith will make his choice because he thinks the Lakers are one perimeter scorer away from title contention? If anything, they have a lot of perimeter guys and only 2 bigs who can play inside, neither of which are being used correctly.
I’m shocked that you took it seriously too. They need Sessions about a hundred times more than they need Smith.
or play close to 30mpg as the backup 2 and 3. And you still get guaranteed camera time on the Lakers.
As far as the writher, he’s claiming to have “sources” which say they would. Probably full of crap or maybe he’s just following a bunch of people on twitter but a lot of players do want to be Lakers, I don’t see how that’s not at least partially true.
It's the way it was written that annoyed me to the point where it was a joke
The writer was so sure of himself for absolutely no reason. I don’t see why JR Smith would pick the Lakers over the Knicks. Neither is contending right now, both are probably going to make the playoffs, and he’d get paid more / have more PT on the Knicks. The Lakers are definitely better, but they aren’t winning rings with that squad, even with JR. And at least JR fits into the system in NY a lot better. He doesn’t fit into the Lakers’ system at all, and I’m not so sure he’d be the starting SF. He’s not Mike Brown’s type at all given that he isn’t known for playing any defense, and Brown’s offense is LeBron or Kobe vs 5.
And that’s all without mentioning that if he wants to go somewhere and not get paid much, the Clippers are far more attractive. Same city, and as much or more camera time than the Lakers. Again, I’m confused how you don’t see what’s so ridiculous about this writer being so obnoxiously sure of himself. It’s like it’s pulled directly from that Sh*t Lakers Say video.
If we’re gonna dream, they should be able to dream. Except we don’t have articles titled, “JR Smith will sign with Clippers.” And we tend to temper our expectations by qualifying that he’ll probably go for the money, but IF he doesn’t go for the money, we’re a very high quality landing spot. It’s stuff like saying he wants to play with Kobe that’s obnoxious. No, he wants to play somewhere he can get a good contract and get a lot of minutes. If the writer had phrased it that way (which is valid for the Lakers too) it wouldn’t be obnoxious.
Sessions they might be able to get for a 2nd round pick (they have the Mavs 1st round pick too). And then its a matter of which team convinces him to take their minimum type deal.
The “funny” line was meant sarcastically… I find this to be really annoying Laker homerism, and it’s kind of a joke that it’s worthy of being a fanshot over at SSR—-I like to think we wouldn’t fanshot a quote from Clipper Darrell’s personal blog saying that his sources think Dwight Howard loves dining in LA, and therefore will come to the Clippers because DUH Blake Griffin is awesome.
Everyone talks about Kenyon and JR being disruptions… I don’t know where they take it from, I mean Nuggets have been very consistent the last few years. And with guys like Melo and (for some time Iverson) a lot of shots will be gone. They would have had enough reason to be disruptions, yet Nuggets played consistent.
Also, people tend to mature with age and Kenyon went to the finals twice while being the second/ third best option on his team, so he cant be that much of a cancer. Caron and Chauncey have dealt with enough loose canons over their careers and Chauncey always knew how to contain them and get to the semis/ finals.
Chris Paul also seems like an authority and being surrounded with team-oriented competitive workhorses like Blake… I think if anything the atmosphere lends itself to rehabilitation from badboyhood.
And JR is just coming from China. He’ll just be happy to be with a good American team.
And it’s the Clippers of 2012… everybody’s watching, everyone knows he’s got the talent. If he behave’s and plays like a true team player… his next contract is gonna be sweet. An he knows that. So why mess up?
I just want to say that I am impressed with the quality of fans the Clippers have, especially those in glass houses.
It’s impressive to be “chatting” with some people, not all, that have never made any mistakes in their lives. Personally I try to be a good person and grow with age and learn from my mistakes, which yes, I’ve made some mistakes unlike a few other citizens in here. I guess it must be empowering to know that nobody has ever had to forgive you for anything you have done wrong because you haven’t done anything wrong. I only wish that people will be able to forgive my past indiscretions better than you have forgiven JR for his. Caron has been to prison for his past crimes yet he has turned his life around and become the upstanding Clipper player we all root for. It just sucks that some of you aren’t able to give JR a chance and can’t look past his mistakes in life.
Let’s talk basketball for a moment. To me that’s what really matters. Can this guy help us? G. Karl didn’t really think so on the Nugs. What’s differnet here?
Not that it matters but has the guy shown any remorse for the reckless behavior that led to the death of a friend of his?
First i don't know the guy or any family member of his friend so i can't say if he's shown remorse and i'm pretty sure nobody else on here can either.
Secondly i agree it’s all about basketball. The guy played in Denver, he wasn’t benched, he wasn’t suspended during the playoffs like G. Karl did to Kenyon Martin yet Clipper fans are happy we got Kenyon. Sure he wasn’t a starter and didn’t play starter minutes, but to me if the guy is good enough for CP3 and Chauncey then he’s definitely good enough for the Clips. Whether he is good enough for them i don’t know yet, not sure if it’s been reported if they want him to join the team or not.
There are mistakes, and then there's callous disregard for human life.
Sure, you’ve made mistakes. So have we all. But did your mistakes involve killing one of your best friends and then immediately repeating the exact same behavior that killed your best friend? Then yes, I’d be unwilling to forgive you of those mistakes, and I don’t think it would be the slightest bit hypocritical of me to do so.
I’ve certainly made plenty of mistakes, some of them whoppers. But a) I’ve never killed anybody, and b) if I did accidentally kill somebody, you could be damn sure that I wouldn’t put myself in a position to do the exact same thing again by repeating the exact same behavior.
But how does all of this translate into whether or not we want him to play here?
I think he’s a reckless idiot off the court. Self-centered, juvenile, dislikable, reckless, arrogant. But does all that mean I don’t sign him for the balance of the year to play basketball for us?
I feel like you guys are argueing not of the player JR Smith, but the character of his.
Seems like there isn’t any question that JR Smith can contribute, it’s just a question of whether his personality is right for the Clippers. It’s more of a “I think his personality can and possibly will plague the youngin’s of Paul, Griffin, and DJ, which could really damage team chemistry (and throw in a little bit of speed racer)” vs “This was light years ago. We can agree that Smith is no Chris Paul, but with veterans, they can keep him in check. Not to mention it looks like he might be a big upgrade over Randy Foye.”
I’d take the gamble though. If JR Smith is willing to take whatever we can offer him (which looks to be the min), this could be a pretty high reward. Not to mention this might be a one year rental so who knows, Smith might actually be on his best behavior. But even if he’s not, and the organization sees that his character is contagious and poisonous, we can just cut him. Cutting a player that makes the minimum really doesn’t hurt as much as you think.
That could go either way.
What do you think has kept JR Smith from getting more money by now?
His talent or his knuckleheaded attitude and that teams are afraid, he will destroy them from within?
He could probably be making JT kinda money if it weren’t for his attitude. Hopefully the people around him tell him that. If he gets on the Clippers, it will be about “how good can he fit in with a contender?” All he needs to do is make about fourteen points, hit threes, be a threat to slash to the lane, defend well (which he can do), nothing more. If he can do that, top notch teams will take notice and he will see the money. no one ever questioned the talent.
Yes. Duh! We need him now.
FlyByKnight - February 8, 2012
With CP’s blessing, yes.
cassellmania - February 8, 2012
There's more to life than winning a basketball game
boltsfan21 - February 8, 2012
rec'd
LJ Hann - February 8, 2012
winning a basketball championship?
hell to the yes!
chrisd - February 8, 2012
I am curious
and I am not in any way trying to be sarcastic. What is the objection? Is it his off court behavior? All I can come up with was a reckless driving charge and some speeding tickets. Personally I will live with this past indiscretions and some flare ups with coaches for a chance to compete this year. If he shows up and has an attitude or doesn’t fit in, you send him packing. Paul is a leader and a guy other NBA’ers respect. I think he could keep the guy in check.
johnnyoc21 - February 8, 2012
See: bolts and my exchange on the thread that spawned this
It all comes to how you interpret JR’s actions. Reckless driving led to the death of a friend (obviously not intentional) but there are questions about JR’s behavior as he received 2 more speeding tickets before he even went on trial for the accident that killed his friend. I called it negligent, but others called it sociopathic. If you’re with the latter party, then that might be enough to get this guy on your “never play for my team” list, regardless of how good he is. Most aren’t really getting into his on-court behavior (i.e. fighting with coaches) as I don’t think it’s considered that bad compared to some other players with stronger personalities.
Erik O - February 8, 2012
Given the time since the reckless driving death
I think he’s stayed out of trouble off the court since. He was 21, it’s been almost 5 years. Just make sure CP3, BG or DJ carpool with him :D
ClipperChuck - February 8, 2012
don't* carpool with him, right??
Erik O - February 8, 2012
oops
right.
ClipperChuck - February 8, 2012
And wear their damn seat belts if they do.
shay - February 8, 2012
If CP3 says it is ok to get him, then I am ok
lovinglosangeles - February 8, 2012
Or option #3: JR might not choose the Clippers at all!
I know JR will be an excellent pickup (if the chemistry works out) and his help is more needed than ever with Billups injury.. but everybody around here is talking like we already own him… lets not get ahead of ourselves and be Clipper fans again (expect the worst but hope something better happens)… we are not the only club who would welcome his services.. other clubs might offer him more money/incentives
twistedwrister - February 8, 2012 via mobile
Only way i see JR (and his agent) choosing Clips-
If NY starts losing again and we keep winning. When JR comes back he’s gonna be looking for not just money, but the best opportunity to showcase his talent for a contract this summer. If we are poised to be a top seed in th west he may decide to take less money for the opportunity to make a deep playoff run, as opposed to a one and done (or maybe no playoffs at all) with the Knicks.
It also helps that we have a pass first All Star PG.
cassellmania - February 8, 2012
You make a good point and if I were Smitty I would do just that.
Meaning, take less money to get on a team that has potential. He could get major playing minutes and possibly be a starter. He can create his own plays and shots so why not get some national attention while doing it.
I know I’m posting a bunch on the Clippers blog today so just to make this clear, I’m a Nuggets fan but I was happy to see the Clippers get to do some good stuff instead of languishing like they have been. I won’t be a fanboy buying a Chris Paul jersey and say that I’ve been a lifelong Clippers fan but its nice to see an underdog make a play.
georgekarl - February 8, 2012
I love this :)
Erik O - February 8, 2012
So what do you think of him as a player?
I was going to post a question to denver fans but too lazy. and what did his denver teammates think of him?
KeithClossrules - February 8, 2012
actually...if he just wants to show off for a new contract
NYK might be the place to do it…..
JR can just do what he does best (offense) in the D’antoni system…and he will probably take little flack for losing any games. the blame will all be on either D’Antoni, Melo, STAT, or managment…not on him. so he can be as free as he wants, on and off the court. he has the most opportunity to put up a lot of offense to get teams interested in him if he plays in NYK…whether the Knicks win or lose
…..if he signs with the Clips and the Clips start losing, people will blame Smith. calling him the cancer that ruined Lob City
KidJustin - February 8, 2012
or he goes to the TWolves where he can start and get his money.
hopefully they start losing some more so he comes to the Clips.
chrisd - February 8, 2012
For $1mill, its worth the gamble BUT
He can make twice as much with Minnesota who needs a SG or NY Knicks. He strikes me as someone who looks at the bottom line of who can offer me the most $ over the team’s potential success, potential teammates, etc
you offer me 2.5 mil vs 1.1 mil, I’m taking 2.5 — especially after being stuck in China
djmccaslin - February 8, 2012
+1
he’s still pretty young, i don’t know if winning is high on his list.
zac4president - February 8, 2012
check out my post above- he may chose us for possibility of bigger payday this summer
cassellmania - February 8, 2012
He probably knows that he wouldn't get a full contract when he comes
back from China. Big payday, as you say, would be in the summer. Plus, given how Knicks are playing, I’d hesitate to play for them.
lovinglosangeles - February 8, 2012
Winning Does Help a Contract
People are (perhaps correctly) under the presumption that he’s a self-fish player. It wouldn’t hurt to join a team that wins and gives the illusion that he can be a team player.
UC.Clipper - February 8, 2012
Also, I get the sense that if the Clippers make a serious and deep run into
the playoffs, TV ratings might just go up a bit. People would tune in to watch mainly CP3, Blake.
lovinglosangeles - February 8, 2012
as long as he plays in MSG...and Melo is there
they will always have publicity.
KidJustin - February 8, 2012
True but marketing wise right now is CP3 and Blake playing together... Given that ratings and sales have skyrocketed since the CP3 trade,
my sense is that TV networks and regulars would be more interested in the Clippers in the playoffs than the Knicks.
lovinglosangeles - February 8, 2012
Clippers are the talk of the town
If he’s trying to play for a new contract and get himself seen, LA is the place to be. This year, anyway. It all depends how well we are playing come March/April/whenever he’s available.
Erik O - February 8, 2012
Thats what I'm saying.
Doesn’t LA have another team somewhere?
georgekarl - February 8, 2012
no, no they don't.
chrisd - February 8, 2012
do you mean baseball??
XXDC2XX - February 8, 2012
That's an all women's team, silly!
Erik O - February 8, 2012
Keep in mind
It’s pro-rated salary, so the dollar difference isn’t as much. Without pro-ration, the difference is $1.4mil. With a 35-game pro-ration (number of games after the All Star Break), that drops to $747k. Then what if his Chinese team makes the playoffs? With a 25-game pro-ration (March 15th onward), it’s down to $530k. And what if they go deep into the playoffs and he’s there til April? With a 14-game-pro-ration, the difference is almost nothing at under $300k.
I don’t think money is going to play a huge factor here.
Erik O - February 8, 2012
Hey Lawler's Law
This is for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiNMz_745vQ#t=0m28.4s
Erik O - February 8, 2012
i think we should...
We should post one lob city hightlight a day on his twitter… give him what i call the " lob city itch" (something KMart had been suffering during his time off) by the time he comes back to the US he will be itching for the Clippers regardless how much money the other teams are giving him
twistedwrister - February 8, 2012 via mobile
I voted Yes.
But I’m not in the agreement that we NEED him. We can win without him and we don’t need to be like the Yankees, buying more and more headline players. As the Yankees have attested to, it doesn’t necessarily mean championships. I do have faith in Foye doing his duty.
However, Smith would be a good player to have, provided he comes here at the right price and behaves.
Chris McD - February 8, 2012
Where's the "Hell Nay" option?
What happened to the front office’s pledge to bring in good character guys? Now we’re right back to the Ricky Davis days? Great.
JR Smith is easily one of the most selfish players in the league. He’ll come in here after jacking up shot after shot in China thinking that he’s going to do the same thing and be the #1 option. It’s hilarious to me that anyone thinks that he’ll reign it in out of nowhere. He’s not about winning. Never has been about winning. He’s always been about one thing – getting his.
I’m not talking about off-court issues. I’m talking about ON-COURT selfishness that is horrible for chemistry as well as wins & losses.
madglove - February 8, 2012
Reign it in out of nowhere?
The idea is that CP3 would have a stronger personality (and rightfully so).
And on a side note, there’s no statistical evidence to indicate that he has been horrible for wins & losses…
Erik O - February 8, 2012
Stronger personality?
Chauncey had a stronger personality than JR Smith in Denver too. It doesn’t matter if JR Smith won’t listen or fall in line.
madglove - February 9, 2012
This is true
Still, as I said, statistically he’s good. I think he may have the potential to be great, but his knuckleheadedness results in him being only good.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
This is true
Still, as I said, statistically he’s good. I think he may have the potential to be great, but his knuckleheadedness results in him being only good.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
Hey MG, where you been?
Great points and I totally agree. I’m a no.
There have been a lot of changes in the last 2 months at our ball club and we our just in the process at the moment of finding out who we are. We have two selfless leaders in Cp3 and Caron and this signing would go against the team first ethic we are trying to build. That has never been JR’s thing.
ClippersUK - February 8, 2012 via mobile
Hey UK
I’ve been around…just not a whole lot to say. Plus, some of these threads are getting super long where I just don’t feel like going back and reading 200 comments on something. I guess that’s the “downside” of this team’s popularity. Good to see you around though. You were gone a while too.
madglove - February 9, 2012
Well, things have certainly changed around here since Clippers went global! Not always for the better either.
Didn’t feel like contributing during the lockout and now there are so many threads. No point in trying to contribute something to them all so often just read what the old school and the new “fans” are typing. Unless TimKempton is posting then I can’t resist!
ClippersUK - February 9, 2012
Ricky Davis turned out to be a pretty good character for the Clippers.
shay - February 8, 2012
Ricky Davis contributed hardly anything for this ball club
ClippersUK - February 8, 2012 via mobile
We had him well past his prime. But I was addressing the point that Ricky was a bad character; he was a great locker room presence during his tenure here
shay - February 8, 2012
Ricky then and JR now are in different points of their career
Ricky knew he was washed up and his greatest asset is experience and being a mentor
JR….still has potential to become big headed and destroy the team from within
KidJustin - February 9, 2012
Fine you can use Zbo... sure he punched a dude, but I think most of Clipper Nation was in support of that
shay - February 9, 2012
Yes.
I teeter-tottered back and forth, but I definitely say yes (right now lol). It’s possible that we can make a trade for something/someone else, but signing Smith is the best way to fill in some holes of the team without giving anything up. He has played with 4 players (including Billups) and there would be some immediate comfort because of that.
For Smith’s benefit, he gets the opportunity to step into a significant role on a winning team that may very well be in contention for a title. The Knicks are fighting for the last spot in the playoffs and putting all of their hopes into Jeremy Lin and an injured Baron Davis. If they do make the playoffs, can they get past the Heat or Bulls? Probably not.
The downside is that he is taking the minimum, and an agent doesn’t want his client to establish himself as a minimum contract player, because it can hurt future contracts. I just think that it is a risk that he has to take.
Lawler 4ever - February 8, 2012
Yes sir!!
We need JR Smith!! He can be our potentail 2 guard of the future!!
ClipperBEAST - February 8, 2012
Hell to the Yes
My only concern is that he’s clearly going to be playing for his next contract and how he reacts/plays to that could be great or could be bad, who knows. The good thing is we’re going to have at least a week or a lot more to see if we really need him or not while he’s in China.
chrisd - February 8, 2012
My question is why are we sucking up to Citizen Erik O and his requests?
Can I request a Jumbaco?
PV Mike - February 8, 2012
in order to get a jumbaco
you must complete the following two steps:
1. Take a Jumbo Jack
2. Add two tacos
johnnyoc21 - February 8, 2012
whaddya get?
LJ Hann - February 8, 2012
Erik O - February 8, 2012
WTF is that Andre Miller's illegitimate son?
don’t like…
KidJustin - February 9, 2012
Beats me.
But I almost always agree with what he says. Like a brotha from another brotha’s mutha.
Chris McD - February 8, 2012
Erik O got no class man
what up wit dis?
LJ Hann - February 8, 2012
Quite frankly, he pisses me off
He is the Clips Nation Golden Child. Plus, he sucks up to the moderators like a teachers pet with some silly Megastat.
PV Mike - February 8, 2012
heehee
Erik O - February 8, 2012
He is always sucking up to me
It annoys me, frankly. Teacher’s pet.
LJ Hann - February 8, 2012
really i thought he was sucking Maggette
KidJustin - February 9, 2012
sucking up to*
oops….hehe
KidJustin - February 9, 2012
That's it.
No more Mr. Nice Guy.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
We need Billups to keep you guys in order
Jax - February 9, 2012
this is glorious
LJ Hann - February 9, 2012
no
what is happening to the analysis on this blog. yea let’s add a showboat ball hog to our team. Has anyone even broken down what jr smith adds to our team? We already have jump shooters, until someone makes a decent argument for what smith adds to our team this is just blind hype. Does he play defense… no. Does he rebound… no, can he take 20 shots a game.. yes can he pass the ball … no what is all the love for this dude about?
flightofthegriffin - February 8, 2012
Because people want a scorer. They don’t seem to see the negatives to his game, just that he could score 25 points in a night. The fact that he could throw up 20 shots to get it and contribute nothing much else doesn’t seem to be getting much analysis
ClippersUK - February 8, 2012 via mobile
Chauncey Billups was shooting 35% before his injury and shoots 41% for his career. J.R shoots 42% for his career and 43.5 his last season. Chauncey has a higher TS% (due to his FTs) but a lower eFG% due to JR being better from 3.
JR grabbed 6 boards per 36 mins his last season however his numbers would probably be closer to his career average of 4.2 if he were playing for the Clippers. Chauncey had 3 rebounds per 36 mins.
Chauncey wins on assists with 4.7 per 36 mins to JR’s 3.2. But JR gets 1.7 steals per 36 to Chauncey’s .5 (1.1 for his career)
Defensively J.R. has 3-4 inches on Chauncey and can guard taller players more effectively. He is also more athletic and would do better on quicker players. Chauncey is definitely the smarter player and would draw more fouls (as displayed by his TS%).
For the advanced stats their JR’s per last season is about the same as Chauncey’s this season and their WS/48 is about the same.
I think overall, basketballwise they are probably going to give you similar contributions. JR with a few more rebounds, 3s, and steals… Chauncey with a few more assists and FTs.
shay - February 8, 2012
Smith is a terrible defender
Who won’t be able to guard anyone effectively. Steals can be a very misleading stat as passing lane gambles can lead to a defensive mess.
Sure, I don’t doubt the shooting stats for a moment but you can’t show stats for being a selfish player or a disruptive influence. That is my problem with this potential signing. Chemistry.
ClippersUK - February 8, 2012 via mobile
The advantage defensively
is that when Caron is guarding the SG (like Kobe), JR has better size to guard a sf
LJ Hann - February 8, 2012
I don't see any statistical evidence to backup that he's a bad defensive player
he looks more or less average. As far as chemistry when he’s on the court his team have had a positive +/-
http://www.82games.com/1011/10DEN6.HTM#5man
ClipperChuck - February 8, 2012
His Defense rating last year was 106 and has been improving every year he’s been in the league. For comparison Billups was 111 this season and 113 last season with a career rating of 107. Caron Butler last year was 106 and this year it is 108 with a career of 107. Randy Foye is 107 this year (112 career). Mo Williams is 108 this year (110 career). Dwayne wade is 98 this season (103 career), Kobe is 102 this year (105 for his career), Aaron Afflalo is 107 (110 for his career).
DRtg isn’t the most accurate stat, but if he was as bad a defender as you claim it would be more obvious in the stats.
shay - February 8, 2012
Hollingers Profile of his D
Synergy rated Smith as the worst defender in the league last season. I don’t think he was that bad, but he certainly wasn’t good. While Smith has the size and physical skills to defend well, he’s inattentive, takes bad gambles and doesn’t play hard. He ranked eighth at his position in steals per minute, but only by taking a lot of low-risk gambles that saw him beaten repeatedly. His improved rebounding last season (sixth among shooting guards) may be a sign that he’s putting a bit more effort into the defensive end, but relative to every other player in the league he still has a long way to go.
ClippersUK - February 9, 2012 via mobile
His defense looks really good here
J.R. Smith shows Defense, Blocks a Child (Video)
ClipperChuck - February 9, 2012
That is funny.
ClippersUK - February 9, 2012
He guards Kobe pretty well here. He has the ability to be a good defender and has been improving over the years. Will VDN be the coach that motivates him on the defensive end? Probably not, but I don’t think he’s as big a liability as you say (especially compared to Foye and Mo) and unlike Foye… JR actually has an offensive game.
shay - February 9, 2012
Please, bringing up a couple of plays on YouTube doesn't prove anything.
And how is he improving over the years? Proof of this? Is it that in 10/11 he improved his rebounding stats?
ClippersUK - February 9, 2012
Well... yes? I can't think of any other way to measure it objectively
His defense rating, rebounds, steals, blocks… pretty much all his defensive categories have been improving with every year in the league.
shay - February 9, 2012
Also I remember him not getting along with Byron Scott (but then again who did?)
But he seemed to be fine with George Karl. I don’t remember him complaining about being a 6th man or not having starter minutes. JR’s role would mostly be to stretch the offense and be a spot up shooter… so in that sense he should be playing selfishly. Caron Butler technically plays selfishly but it’s okay because that is the role he is meant to play on the team.
shay - February 8, 2012
Chauncy is not a good defender any longer either
Jax - February 9, 2012
He's good for Lob City though - don't underestimate the power of Lob City
;-)
Jax - February 9, 2012
For $1 million
Why not? If he doesn’t fit, we’ll jettison him. And if he does fit? We might have found our future SG.
But to be honest, I don’t think he’ll fit. Maybe I’m just stuck on his checkered past as a selfish knucklehead.
Rob Lo - February 8, 2012
Exactly...
It’s barely any money, and everyone’s complaining about his defense. It’s not like Foye or Billups are incredible defenders either.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
Vehemtly, I say NO WAY......But
IF he were to have a special or our very base year contract AND Chauncey and Chris Paul sign off on this AND JR agrees to be mentored by Chauncey and Chauncey agrees to it, making him apprentice of sorts. Then I say yes.
If JR were to turn dedicated, he could be a borderline all-star. But him being dedicated is spl far
Takebb909 - February 9, 2012 via mobile
…..him being dedicated is so far fetched right now. Kenyon, Chris and Chauncey could be good for him if hewould want to change.
Takebb909 - February 9, 2012 via mobile
Can't see him returning from scoring 100 points per game in China and being the best thing since sliced bread to
being treated like a child and being mentored. This is JR Smith we are talking about, not some rookie or sophomore.
If he had the right attitude, he would be a top 10 SG in the league, no doubt. But……………………he doesn’t.
ClippersUK - February 9, 2012
Do you require an electronic ankle bracelet?
Jax - February 9, 2012
we have a 6th man already named mo williams
need a 2/3 who can defend bigger guys, not a bigger version of mo williams with a worse attitude. I think signing smith would be convenient and that’s why everyone likes it so much, but we are trying to build a contender not just try to out score everyone. Need a defensive stopper in the rotation somewhere this looks like the best opportunity to find one and make whoever it is a part of the rotation.
flightofthegriffin - February 9, 2012
if we outscore everyone don't we win?
plus Mo will still be the 6th man, JR would start in place of Foye.
chrisd - February 9, 2012
Wanna see something funny?
http://blognbasketball.com/2012/02/source-j-r-smith-will-sign-with-lakers/
Posted at SSR (and actually taken seriously).
Erik O - February 9, 2012
Not sure why that's funny
the Lakers are still going to get a lot of looks from free agents. If they add Sessions and JR Smith they are back in the mix as well.
ClipperChuck - February 9, 2012
Um, did you read it?
It’s written like someone commented on Facebook without any knowledge of basketball, just saying the usual, “Lakers get everyone because DUH everyone wants to be a Laker.” So Smith doesn’t care about money or playing time, he just wants to be a Laker and play alongside (a.k.a. behind) Kobe. Right. He goes from scoring 30ppg to being Kobe’s backup? With Kobe being the league’s current scoring leader, and them playing the exact same position, that’s kind of silly. Smith will make his choice because he thinks the Lakers are one perimeter scorer away from title contention? If anything, they have a lot of perimeter guys and only 2 bigs who can play inside, neither of which are being used correctly.
I’m shocked that you took it seriously too. They need Sessions about a hundred times more than they need Smith.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
LOL
Jax - February 9, 2012
He'd be the starting SF
or play close to 30mpg as the backup 2 and 3. And you still get guaranteed camera time on the Lakers.
As far as the writher, he’s claiming to have “sources” which say they would. Probably full of crap or maybe he’s just following a bunch of people on twitter but a lot of players do want to be Lakers, I don’t see how that’s not at least partially true.
ClipperChuck - February 9, 2012
It's the way it was written that annoyed me to the point where it was a joke
The writer was so sure of himself for absolutely no reason. I don’t see why JR Smith would pick the Lakers over the Knicks. Neither is contending right now, both are probably going to make the playoffs, and he’d get paid more / have more PT on the Knicks. The Lakers are definitely better, but they aren’t winning rings with that squad, even with JR. And at least JR fits into the system in NY a lot better. He doesn’t fit into the Lakers’ system at all, and I’m not so sure he’d be the starting SF. He’s not Mike Brown’s type at all given that he isn’t known for playing any defense, and Brown’s offense is LeBron or Kobe vs 5.
And that’s all without mentioning that if he wants to go somewhere and not get paid much, the Clippers are far more attractive. Same city, and as much or more camera time than the Lakers. Again, I’m confused how you don’t see what’s so ridiculous about this writer being so obnoxiously sure of himself. It’s like it’s pulled directly from that Sh*t Lakers Say video.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
I read that and I sound like kind of a dick :\
Sorry CC.. bad day at work.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
Need somebody to massage those shoulders there Erik? :\
;)
JackduhSun - February 9, 2012
Call Maggs
he has to return the favor some time right?
ClipperChuck - February 9, 2012
I wouldn't
a shoulder massage from Maggs might leave you sore for days.
JackduhSun - February 9, 2012
I don't want to die :(
Erik O - February 9, 2012
Clipsnation
is dead tonight…
JackduhSun - February 9, 2012
Cuts both ways
It’s obnxious for us to think he’s going to come here for the minimum (and there’s a decent amount of people who don’t want him here period).
I don’t want to see this happen but if the Lakers added Sessions (via the trade exception) and signed JR Smith they would be back in the title hunt.
SG – Kobe
PG – Sessions
C – Bynum
PF – Gasol
SF – Barnes
Bench – JR Smith, Fisher, Blake, McRoberts, Murphy all of a sudden looks pretty respectable
ClipperChuck - February 9, 2012
Wait so..
it’s obnoxious for us to think he’d come to us for the minimum, but not the Lakers?
JackduhSun - February 9, 2012
I get it
If we’re gonna dream, they should be able to dream. Except we don’t have articles titled, “JR Smith will sign with Clippers.” And we tend to temper our expectations by qualifying that he’ll probably go for the money, but IF he doesn’t go for the money, we’re a very high quality landing spot. It’s stuff like saying he wants to play with Kobe that’s obnoxious. No, he wants to play somewhere he can get a good contract and get a lot of minutes. If the writer had phrased it that way (which is valid for the Lakers too) it wouldn’t be obnoxious.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
No...
instead we get articles where people don’t even want him for the minimum!
ClipperChuck - February 10, 2012
But that's not obnoxious...
That’s just people not wanting him.
Erik O - February 10, 2012
It's not?
saying we passing judgment on his character etc that he’s not worth playing for our team for the NBA minimum? I can see how its interpreted both ways.
ClipperChuck - February 10, 2012
Not in the same way that I think that Laker post was obnoxious
That post said, “Lakers rule, everyone else sux.”
People not wanting JR Smith is just saying, “JR Smith sux.”
Erik O - February 10, 2012
Yah he misses the point
Jax - February 10, 2012
Go away stalker
It’s obnoxious for us to think he wouldn’t take the minimum with other good teams and only the Clippers.
ClipperChuck - February 10, 2012
Anyone who is saying that is EXACTLY as obnoxious as the Laker guy
coughbandwagonerscough
Erik O - February 10, 2012
Your post is obnoxious - just because Clipsnation citizens disagree with your opinions
doesn’t make them stalkers
Jax - February 13, 2012
I agree, both ways
I’m pretty sure he’ll go to the Knicks.
Sessions to the Lakers is seriously what they need. Badly. Smith seems like white noise for them.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
Why can't they get both
Sessions they might be able to get for a 2nd round pick (they have the Mavs 1st round pick too). And then its a matter of which team convinces him to take their minimum type deal.
ClipperChuck - February 10, 2012
Btw
The “funny” line was meant sarcastically… I find this to be really annoying Laker homerism, and it’s kind of a joke that it’s worthy of being a fanshot over at SSR—-I like to think we wouldn’t fanshot a quote from Clipper Darrell’s personal blog saying that his sources think Dwight Howard loves dining in LA, and therefore will come to the Clippers because DUH Blake Griffin is awesome.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
Have you seen this short youtube video on being a Lakers Fan
Kind of similar to the one a couple weeks back by the Clippers Fan.
http://youtu.be/1IExei3pH70
PV Mike - February 9, 2012
lol I loved the part
Bynum’s just gonna get injured again.
Fisher why don’t you just retire?
Bynum’s injury history is behind him.
Fisher… COUNT IT. He’s so clutch.
Erik O - February 9, 2012
I think the Clippers should take the gamble.
Everyone talks about Kenyon and JR being disruptions… I don’t know where they take it from, I mean Nuggets have been very consistent the last few years. And with guys like Melo and (for some time Iverson) a lot of shots will be gone. They would have had enough reason to be disruptions, yet Nuggets played consistent.
Also, people tend to mature with age and Kenyon went to the finals twice while being the second/ third best option on his team, so he cant be that much of a cancer. Caron and Chauncey have dealt with enough loose canons over their careers and Chauncey always knew how to contain them and get to the semis/ finals.
Chris Paul also seems like an authority and being surrounded with team-oriented competitive workhorses like Blake… I think if anything the atmosphere lends itself to rehabilitation from badboyhood.
And JR is just coming from China. He’ll just be happy to be with a good American team.
And it’s the Clippers of 2012… everybody’s watching, everyone knows he’s got the talent. If he behave’s and plays like a true team player… his next contract is gonna be sweet. An he knows that. So why mess up?
germanclipper - February 9, 2012
To me it's up to CP3 and Chauncy and Kenyon
They know what he can and can’t do
Jax - February 9, 2012
I just want to say that I am impressed with the quality of fans the Clippers have, especially those in glass houses.
It’s impressive to be “chatting” with some people, not all, that have never made any mistakes in their lives. Personally I try to be a good person and grow with age and learn from my mistakes, which yes, I’ve made some mistakes unlike a few other citizens in here. I guess it must be empowering to know that nobody has ever had to forgive you for anything you have done wrong because you haven’t done anything wrong. I only wish that people will be able to forgive my past indiscretions better than you have forgiven JR for his. Caron has been to prison for his past crimes yet he has turned his life around and become the upstanding Clipper player we all root for. It just sucks that some of you aren’t able to give JR a chance and can’t look past his mistakes in life.
chrisd - February 9, 2012
Yah ok but G. Karl wouldn't let him start
Let’s talk basketball for a moment. To me that’s what really matters. Can this guy help us? G. Karl didn’t really think so on the Nugs. What’s differnet here?
Not that it matters but has the guy shown any remorse for the reckless behavior that led to the death of a friend of his?
Jax - February 9, 2012
First i don't know the guy or any family member of his friend so i can't say if he's shown remorse and i'm pretty sure nobody else on here can either.
Secondly i agree it’s all about basketball. The guy played in Denver, he wasn’t benched, he wasn’t suspended during the playoffs like G. Karl did to Kenyon Martin yet Clipper fans are happy we got Kenyon. Sure he wasn’t a starter and didn’t play starter minutes, but to me if the guy is good enough for CP3 and Chauncey then he’s definitely good enough for the Clips. Whether he is good enough for them i don’t know yet, not sure if it’s been reported if they want him to join the team or not.
chrisd - February 9, 2012
I agree
Jax - February 10, 2012
There are mistakes, and then there's callous disregard for human life.
Sure, you’ve made mistakes. So have we all. But did your mistakes involve killing one of your best friends and then immediately repeating the exact same behavior that killed your best friend? Then yes, I’d be unwilling to forgive you of those mistakes, and I don’t think it would be the slightest bit hypocritical of me to do so.
I’ve certainly made plenty of mistakes, some of them whoppers. But a) I’ve never killed anybody, and b) if I did accidentally kill somebody, you could be damn sure that I wouldn’t put myself in a position to do the exact same thing again by repeating the exact same behavior.
boltsfan21 - February 11, 2012
JR Smith
He is an amazingly explosive basketball player. Erik O shared that link of him spending time with the little girl, but it felt like alot of fluff.
I have to go with Bolts on this.
LJ Hann - February 11, 2012
But how does all of this translate into whether or not we want him to play here?
I think he’s a reckless idiot off the court. Self-centered, juvenile, dislikable, reckless, arrogant. But does all that mean I don’t sign him for the balance of the year to play basketball for us?
Jax - February 13, 2012
yes
it should..
LJ Hann - February 14, 2012
At this point
I feel like you guys are argueing not of the player JR Smith, but the character of his.
Seems like there isn’t any question that JR Smith can contribute, it’s just a question of whether his personality is right for the Clippers. It’s more of a “I think his personality can and possibly will plague the youngin’s of Paul, Griffin, and DJ, which could really damage team chemistry (and throw in a little bit of speed racer)” vs “This was light years ago. We can agree that Smith is no Chris Paul, but with veterans, they can keep him in check. Not to mention it looks like he might be a big upgrade over Randy Foye.”
I’d take the gamble though. If JR Smith is willing to take whatever we can offer him (which looks to be the min), this could be a pretty high reward. Not to mention this might be a one year rental so who knows, Smith might actually be on his best behavior. But even if he’s not, and the organization sees that his character is contagious and poisonous, we can just cut him. Cutting a player that makes the minimum really doesn’t hurt as much as you think.
JackduhSun - February 9, 2012
Being automatically in a contract year certainly helps ;)
Erik O - February 9, 2012
And yes
throw in the fact that JR is going to want to produce to maximize his profits for his next contract with whatever team he decides to sign with.
JackduhSun - February 9, 2012
And that is when you getting him chucking up loads of shots to make his stats look better.
That is JR Smith all over – for himself, not the team.
No thanks.
ClippersUK - February 10, 2012
That could go either way.
What do you think has kept JR Smith from getting more money by now?
His talent or his knuckleheaded attitude and that teams are afraid, he will destroy them from within?
He could probably be making JT kinda money if it weren’t for his attitude. Hopefully the people around him tell him that. If he gets on the Clippers, it will be about “how good can he fit in with a contender?” All he needs to do is make about fourteen points, hit threes, be a threat to slash to the lane, defend well (which he can do), nothing more. If he can do that, top notch teams will take notice and he will see the money. no one ever questioned the talent.
germanclipper - February 10, 2012
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