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Neil Olshey and the Ability to Admit Mistakes

Nobody's perfect. Not you, not me. Nobody. And, since Neil Olshey took the Clippers' front office reins two years ago he hasn't been perfect either, though if you look at the moves he's made as GM, he certainly acts like he has. In the summer of 2010 he brought in free agents Randy Foye and Brian Cook on two year contracts and Ryan Gomes on a three. He drafted Al Farouq Aminu and traded a future pick for the rights to Eric Bledsoe. Later that year, he exchanged Baron Davis and a number one pick for Mo Williams. Last summer he had two second round picks and he chose Trey Thompkins and Travis Leslie. This offseason, he acquired Chauncey Billups out of the new Amnesty program, and he signed Caron Butler as a free agent. More recently, he's brought in Reggie Evans, and now, probably, Kenyon Martin.

Notice anything? Other than Aminu, who was made part of the Chris Paul trade, all of these guys, good, bad, or indifferent, are still with the team.

Star-divide

The Clippers this year have an inelegantly designed roster. The Paul trade (a trade that looks more and more like its working in the Clipper's favor) left them with four point guards (Paul, Billups, Williams, Bledsoe), a combo guard (Foye), no pure two-guards (other than the rookie, Leslie, who has barely seen the floor), and a thin front court. There are only two players on the roster who can play small forward in Billups and Gomes (and Gomes seems more comfortable at the four). Until a few weeks ago there was no adequate backup for Blake Griffin at the four or Deandre Jordan at the five other than Brian Cook, who, at six-ten can't rebound, or defend, or Gomes, who fills stat sheets with strings of goose eggs. Fortunately, those two players recent minutes have been absorbed by newly acquired Reggie Evans who's hard-working and scoops up rebounds like the Easter Bunny, but has absolutely no offensive game whatsoever. Another recent acquisition, the unguaranteed, minimum-salaried Solomon Jones, while seven-foot tall, has provided, uh, nothing. Of course, the Clips are about to sign Kenyon Martin, a thirty-five four year old power forward who will hopefully help bolster the front court in a very real way.

Chauncey Billups is undeniably doing a lot of good things, but it's clear he's playing out of position at two guard. He shoots often and his production is down. Worse, he's small for a two guard, no longer has a quick step, and often gets caught in the paint with nowhere to go. His defense against bigger players is clever but lacking.

Mo Williams who has been relegated unhappily to the bench has been remarkably effective, though he often plays in the worst lineups imaginable. But he's small, and not much of a defender. When Vinny Del Negro tries to keep his scoring on the floor in place of or alongside Billups, opponents often put longer wing players against him, forcing the very small Clipper backcourt into woeful mismatches.

Randy Foye is a bigger, better solution defensively, but he's not close to the offensive player Billups and Williams are. While it seems like Foye should be an effective two guard off the bench, his play is uneven, streaky.

Eric Bledsoe is almost back, and one wonders how he will fit in this ill-matched drama. At his best, Bledsoe is a lightning-quick ballhandler with a great first step and a nose for the ball. He's also small, though with his long arms, and athletic ability he plays bigger than the slight Williams. But he also evidenced great gaps in his game year, he's not much of a shooter, he doesn't have much court awareness, he's a turnover machine, and he's almost always in the wrong place on defense.

I know what you're thinking: the problem will be solved if the Clippers work their newfound magic and bring in J.R. Smith. But can they? As far as free agents go, they've only the minimum to work with, will Smith play for that? More importantly, is he really the guy you want? His off-the-court issues are well documented, but he has on-court issues as well. Sure, he's a nice offensive player, but he's also a relentlessly inefficient, high-usage type guy, who only very reluctantly plays any defense at all. (Check out his DraftExpress profile, which is much worse than I ever imagined.) It seems to me, the Clippers really need is a defensive wing who can slow down big twos and threes and fit inside the Clippers already potent offense. That might be who you want J.R. Smith to be, but that's not who he is.

But all is not lost. The Clippers have some interesting ancillary pieces that might make a trade a possibility. But will they do that? Here's the dilemma: Other than Al Farouq Aminu (darn close to a draft-day bust) Neil Olshey has yet to trade or waive a single player not on a minimum deal whom he brought in. Whether it's his own limitation or one forced on him by the penurious ownership, Olshey has refused, or not been allowed to admit a mistake.

But isn't it time for Olshey to look over this roster, package some of his extraneous assets, and find the last puzzle piece that might make this team among the most powerful in the league?

So, what assets might be tradeable? The Clippers have two trade exceptions acquired in the Chris Paul trade, one for 3.5 3.7 million, one for 2.8 million (that's according to the LA Times). Mo Williams, while he's an awkward fit, is probably untouchable, at this point, he's the only player on the bench who can score. While Ryan Gomes has been terrible this year, he has another year on his deal, and is probably not worth much. Brian Cook, even though his deal is expiring, has little value. The two rookies, Trey Thompkins, and Travis Leslie are probably not worth much.

That leaves Randy Foye and Eric Bledsoe. Foye's been uneven on the court but his contract expires this year and he might be attractive to another team. Then there's Bledsoe. He has or is about to return from injury which devalues him somewhat but he also doesn't have a spot on the team as it's currently structured. While Bledsoe has some striking upside, it seems unlikely he's going to find a role this year. Not with Paul, Billups, Williams, (and Foye) in front of him. He might be the most valuable trade option the Clippers have. Can he combined or one of the trade exceptions bring anything positive back from the trade market?

We know Neil Olshey paid a lot to draft Eric Bledsoe but what's his value to them now? When the Clippers acquired him, they didn't see that the future included Chris Paul or Chauncey Billups, or that it didn't include Eric Gordon.

But no longer are the Clippers a team that's building for the future, it's a team building for the now. And wouldn't a bench of Mo Williams, Kenyon Martin, Reggie Evans, and Swing Man X provide them with enough backup power to go up against deep teams like Denver or Portland or Oklahoma City? And wouldn't that be better than hanging on to a guy who might fit sometime in the not-so-near future, or might not ever fit at all?

Isn't it time for Neil Olshey and the Clippers to do everything they can to bring this roster up to the highest standard possible, even if it means that some of the deals they made in the past are no longer part of the plan? Isn't it a time for Neil Olshey to admit his mistakes and move on?

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Comments

I think they should keep Bledsoe unless a really good deal comes along

Bledsoe is still on his rookie deal which is worth a lot for a team that will have to manage the cap situation carefully the next few seasons. And it is way too early to claim he is a bust. So unless we can acquire a player which has the potential to push us over the top, I say no thanks.

Billups at SG is so so but I still think he has done plenty already for this team, so wouldn’t declare it a failure. Mo has settled into the Terry role perfectly. All in all this roster is flawed but could work. I would say it has worked quite nicely these past 20 games. Most roster around the NBA have flaws, especially those with superstars (ask Kobe).

Before the Paul trade there were no major depth issues. But the timing of the Paul trade has made it difficult to address our new found holes. Next off season the FO can tackle those problems head on.

In the end you have to be realistic. We have some assets to work with, but it will be pretty difficult to add an impact player without a toxic contract.

Agreed

I don’t understand the Billups hate, he has had a couple of bad games but he has also had some magnificent performances. I think Mo has accepted his role coming off the bench and I am not sure where people are getting that he isn’t happy. And who exactly are we going to get as a swing man x mid season, I just don’t see very many options. I think J.R Smith would help as long as Billups and Paul approve of the deal and serve to keep him check.

Keeping Bledsoe will be well worth it

Looking at the young point guards who learned a thing or two under Chris Paul and Chauncey Billups and you’re looking at two young fantastic point guards. I’m speaking about Darren Collison and Ty Lawson. CP3 and Billups are perfect teachers and can continue to develop the play of Eric Bledsoe.

Get Sam Cassell to be an assistant coach

Imagine how much he could teach bled. Maybe show CP a few tricks as well.

Billups and Foye will probably not be back next season..so that will make Bledsoe more valuable to the team later as well.
Darren Collison and Ty Lawson were both experienced point guards before they ever got to the NBA.

How much Paul and Billups had to do with their improvement is questionable. Both made Final Four appearances as point guards. Lawson played three years and Collison played four… at major programs and all at the point . Eric Bledsoe played one year of college ball as a two guard. He’s shown little natural ability as a one.

Here's the problem...

That defensive minded wing that can shoot the corner 3 doesn’t exist. The fact that Kmart and JR Smith are getting this much attention should be a reminder of how dry the free agent market is right now. JR Smith isn’t perfect by any means, but I think he can be a spark off the bench and score in bunches.

+1
That defensive minded wing that can shoot the corner 3 doesn’t exist.

exactly. I was at a loss to come up with a player that fitted that profile and could be available to us. Deng and Allen was all I could think of and we are not getting them for sure.

The free agent doesn't exist.

I suggested looking for a trade.

who are you thinking of?
Hmmm...

A team that is looking for youth but has a glut of wings, and we want to take a defensive-minded one.

I think the Suns are the answer. Phoenix has Dudley and Childress, for $4.25M and $6M, respectively. We could create a package with Bledsoe, trade exception, and/or Foye. Trade machine says Dudley can’t be traded til March 1st, so maybe Childress is better target here. They also have Shannon Brown, but I think he’s part of their rebuilding process, and I don’t like former Lakers.

Plus, this allows them to trade away Nash and start over with Brooks/Bledsoe as their new PG rotation, which is pretty solid for a rebuilding team. Not good for a playoff team, but that wouldn’t be the goal here.

Okay, I really want Dudley.
Childress

His contract is too bad to deal for him, let alone give our only asset for him.

I like Dudley a lot more.

A lot lot more.

For Gomes is totally doable

Foye can work too but the Clips would have to be willing to amnesty Gomes.

Can't package a player with a TPE

next?

my keyboard doesn't register my sentence... cool

*Will dudley become the hot rumor next?

Well damn.

Foye then? He’s essentially the same thing as an exception. Adds no value, except the expiring nature.

Bingo

Clips have to find a team that’s given up their playoff hopes and are in pure cost cutting mode. In the West, that would be the Suns, Warriors, Kings and Hornets.

In the West that would be Childress, Dudley, Dorell Wright and Trevor Ariza (no wing players on the Kings worth pursuing).

In the East its a little trickier as their top 7 teams having winning records but pretty much everyone else can still dream about the 8th seed. Actually it might be a curse to finish 8th and get destroyed by a Chicago or Miami as you’d move to the 15th pick in the draft as opposed to being the in the top 10 of the lottery. Can probably find some good gems in there in the clearance aisle.

Problem there would be the lack of a pick

Other teams can offer that, it would come to what has more value to the trade partner Bledsoe or a low pick.

I'm working under the assumption

none of the teams deeply entrenched in the lottery/rebuilding phase cares too much about guys in the 25-30s. They just want to cut salary, acquire some picks and find their Blake Griffin type building block.

that wont happen till the deadline

even we were semi delusional last year when we were talking playoffs.

PLAY OFFS?

Deadline is March 15th this year

so I think there will be a lot of player movement after the all star break in late february.

The celtics are looking for youth

I mean, could bledsoe, foye, and cook get Allen. It works. But does it get accepted? No. We don’t have alot of assets left who we are willing to part with.

CP3, Blake, DJ are untouchables (or near untouchables, anyways),
Mo Williams, Billups, Butler, Foye, Bledsoe, Gomes, Cook… non are that exciting. Who do we have to trade?

No way C's trade Allen

He’s expiring anyway and they are currently playing well. I always thought if the Celtics fizzled by the deadline they might give up Pietrus for an expiring like Foye, but they’ll want a better player for Allen than the Foye/Bled package, and they still have a young PG in Rondo.

lol

“…it works. But does it get accepted? No.”

The Celtics want to break up the big 3 to get youth

They get all expirings back except for the young Bledsoe.

Anyways, I said it wouldn’t get accepted. The point was to show that we don’t have many assets/

gotcha

read your post too quick, missed the ‘No.’

If you haven't notice

Outside of Pierce, the Allen and Garnet are expiring contracts. As long as they are still in it, they can let them walk at the end.

We have no assets though.

The only asset we really have is Mo Williams, and I’m scared to think about out bench production without him.

i love bledsoe

dont trade him :(

CP3 is so unclutch

he lost in the finals twie in a row

I don't think that was CP3's fault...
DID YOU SEE THE BOWLING FINALS

UNCLUTCH

Well CP3 did say it himself in the interview video

Just cause he’s busy with basketball is no excuse.

I also don't agree Neil Oshley doesn't want to part with his players

He has only been in office for 1,5 season including a lock out. Let’s see if he can work some magic with the limited assets he has left.

the real question

how are we going to get anything of value out of Gomes, Cook, or Foye?
Plus its too early to give up on Bledsoe…much much too early.

Bledsoe

only if we can get something good back

agreed

Still hes the only piece that would be attractive to most teams…
I think hes going to be a very good player in a few years. However, if we win the championship I can live with it.

The value in Gomes and Cook would be not having them.
well, i love Eric "Drew" Bledsoe as much as the next guy

but you do realize that if we wait till we realize he is worthless, everyone else will have as well?

i think the issue is that unless he becomes all star, we don’t need him as we have too many good/great pgs already

i think he will do well in this league but unfortunately not for us

do you realize not all the players need a nickname ??

And really, Cook is valuable but Bledsoe is not unless he becomes a star, the only thing Bledsoe need to do is play well enough to get us a good return in a trade at the off-season. Bledsoe value now is very low, we should wait unless a really good offfer comes by.

my point is we have a lot of very good guards

but 6"9 3 point shooting snipers are not easy to find and I can’t see anyone giving us much for a player such as Cookie Crumbs in his twilight years

People love “prospects” at right now, Bledsoe is still a good prospect that someone will be willing to take a gamble on. So he is a more tradable asset now than Cookie Crumbs.

I agree

If someone is willing to pay good value for Bledsoe then we should trade him, but no reason to trade him just for the sake of trading him.

Hey Raffo, I'm on your side

Trading Bledsoe doesn’t have to be construed as admitting a mistake, but if the right Swing Man X comes along in a trade, then yeah, I think the Clips should pull the trigger. The point being that we should be thinking more about the short term than the long term. This team can win now.

I’ve been high on JR, but since KMart has answered one pressing need, the Clips can probably afford to be more patient addressing the second. KMart offers good D with a bit of offense, and now we should be looking for the same skill set from a wingman. MO + Foye + KMart + X will have enough scoring punch to hold the fortress.

A trade isn’t going to happen immediately, and we’ll get a chance to look at Bled in the meantime… unless the Clips don’t showcase him. It will be interesting to see how VDN plays this.

what reason do the Clippers have

not to showcase him? He got injured in practice so his return has been delayed.

Winning?

If they think that they are better with Foye playing, then they will play Foye.

my point refers to his trade prospects

is that whether or not we choose to play him it, barring some very significant improvements from his first year, most GMs will see him the same way; very talented but also a very very raw young player.

I'm not sure I follow

It could be that we don’t have to showcase him, given that everyone knows he’s talented but raw (assuming he still is raw). So your question should then be, ’Why bother?"

I’m thinking more along LJ’s lines, that Foye is better for winning now. To showcase Bledsoe may hurt us a bit in the short term, but it may be necessary to get max trade value.

It’s always possible that an improved Bledsoe could dissuade me of my trade desires.

Because he can help this team win NOW

“unless the Clips don’t showcase him.” He may be raw but he can help this team win. Thats why I don’t see how you can bury him on the bench.

Im not sure what everyone sees in Foye as being a better bet then Bledsoe…his PER now is only marginally better than Bledsoe in his rookie season and that was with sporadic play and the rookie wall that all first year players face.

How can he help this team?

I’m trying not to be negative, but how does he fit at all? He’s a high-speed, turnover-prone, smallish combo guard. Clips got those in spades. The only reason you keep him is if you believe he’s a significant piece of your future. He’s not. He’s, at best, a backup point guard. Only, he’s not a point guard. He hasn’t shown any real point guard skills.

difference of opinion...

if its Foye vs Bledsoe…ill take Bledsoe thats just my personal opinion based on what I saw last year.
BTW “…he’s at best, a backup point guard” I am going to keep that on record so you can eat some crow haha

BTW

Bledsoe only averaged about 1 TO more than Foye in a couple less minutes

There is a very fine line in this.

Trading away all of your young players to win now only works if you win. Other than that you become the Cavs or the Knicks. Those are the mistakes they made during their good years that cost them in the end. At present, it may be best not to trade away the only assets we have remaining outside of Williams this year when you consider that half of the roster is gone after this season.

Right now, Smith is the best option out there and should be first priority. You don’t hold back because you hope there is a better option that may or may not exist.

I think you give J.R. Smith short shrift

He is not “relentlessly inefficient.” His career TS% is above league average, and his ability to score in bunches is exactly what our offensively-challenged second unit craves.

You may have a legitimate point about his intangibles, but he’s a perfect fit on the court.

His defense numbers are pretty lousy
What numbers are you referring to?

He had very strong Def Win Shares and Adjusted +/- last year. His Synergy numbers are pretty poor, though.

Sorry for the double post

His adjusted +/- and Defensive Win Shares were very strong last year. He rates poorly on Synergy’s defensive metrics, though.

Weird...a double post showed up initially
I wasn't going by stats.

He’s evidenced precious little interest in playing defense.

OK, but what makes him "relentlessly inefficient?"

His offensive game is very efficient, and that’s obviously what you were referring to.

Might have been a bit hyperbolic...

I’ll give you that. But his career usg% is 24 and his PER is 15.9. He’s a breath above mediocre overall and his usage is high.

High usage + above average TS% is a good combination
I agree

And Win Shares disagrees with PER, giving Smith very high WS/48 (.120) almost every year. The only years he had low Win Shares were when he was scoring inefficiently: his first 2 seasons, and for some reason 2009-10. Every other year since his 3rd year, though, he’s been very efficient.

Okay, I'll withdraw the "relentlessly inefficient"...

I looked up his stats and he’s become much more efficient than he was in his earlier years. But I don’t like JR Smith personally, I don’t like his defense and I don’t like him on the Clips, especially next to Mo.
But all of it is tangential to my point.

He has so much potential to be great

He should be a Kobe-esque shooting guard. Beautiful shooting mechanics, he can handle the ball well, he can dunk the ball well, he’s very fast, etc. He has all the tools to be the prototypical lead-scoring SG. Except he’s a headcase that doesn’t try as hard as he should.

Still, even despite this, I think he’s still pretty good. He could possibly be great, but he’s settling for being pretty good. I’ll take pretty good.

score in bunches

that is what Mo does. I’d prefer some more steady scoring in addition to Mo. In principal Keyon Martin could be very good: someone who can keep the defence honest on the pick and roll.Mo scores a lot when he is running the pick and roll with Blake because the other team tends to focus on Blake rolling so Mo gets good looks. It doesn’t work with DJ and Evans because they aren’t believable threats.

I think we're being spoiled

Olshey has done a masterful job so far of putting pieces together that match well on the court. It’s hard in this league to have it all, yet somehow, now with the addition of K-Mart, this team has a lot of options and ways to get creative with different lineups depending on the matchups. Who says Caron Butler can’t play the 2 sometimes if needed? He has before and has the tools to do so. Going with a tall lineup that can score is very possible now thanks to K-Mart’s addition. I could a lineup of CP3/Billups/Mo, Butler, Griffin, BG and DJ on the floor that can very well create problems for most teams. They can go tall and physical or short and fast.
Gomes, Foye, Cook and Bledsoe are not attractive trade pieces at all, I’m sorry. Include Mo and maybe a team might give back something decent, but would it be decent enough?
JR Smith, would he sign for the min? Doubt it. If he does, great!

shit, I put Griffin twice on that tall lineup, should have been CP3, Caron, BG, KMart n DJ

Speaking of K-Mart…how about somehow convincing the Rockets on giving us Kevin Martin? Give them Mo and whoever, fuck it!

You were on the right track

What we need is a cloning machine. Think of all the Griffins we could create.

Not sure the fact of not trading any particular player means not accepting mistakes

Like you noted, the players in question aren’t particularly enticing, and the market is bare as can be. No one is sure what E.Bledsoe will amount to at this point.

Bring in Mbenga, dammit.

i think the game is signing aging vets who want a ring...

so yeah, the C’s possibly turning over KG and Ray Allen could be amazing this offseason…the Clippers have already established themselves as that destination team. Because of this, I think any trades to made this season will be involving solely the trade exceptions.

This made me think

what if Mo Williams leaves, Foye leaves, as do Cook, Evans, and Martin. Clips amnesty Gomes.

Gives them 21 million freed up. they are over the cap, so it wouldn’t be all 21, but still a good deal of money. Then the reserves would be bledsoe, allen, random SF, garnett, random C.

Would that be that much better than reserves of Williams, foye, random SF, evans, martin?

I don’t know. Intriguing.

If M.Williams keeps his play up, he could find a really nice deal on the open market

Maybe not $8.5 million a year, but a 4 year deal probably?

Most of that saved money will go to extending B.Griffin I would think. If anything, more reason for the Clippers to hold onto E.Bledsoe in the event that they do witness an exodus of guards for whatever reason. Some youth on the bench never hurts.

Can't go halfway, LJ. At this point, you gotta go all or nothing.
that's where I disagree

you have to be smart about it. Giving up all your assets for short term gain could also spell doom on operation “keep Paul a Clipper”. You have to give some perspective that the Clips will be able to keep on competing. Getting some impact player with a toxic contract could damage the necessary flexibility to make moves in the future. Look at the Magic and DH. Otis Smith has been wheeling and dealing a lot and as a result has amassed a lot of toxic contracts which are near unmovable at this moment.

At this moment the Clippers are mending the roster on the fly. In the offseason, a lot can be addressed much more efficiently in free agency.

I would rather win one championship than go to the conference finals 5 times and never make the finals

That said, I would rather make the Finals 5 times than once.

yes but even with one addition we have a decent shot

but not a great shot.

You always have to keep next year in mind

Foye will be gone, Chauncey may or may not be here. It will be extremely shortsighted to trade away Bledsoe. The Brand/Maggette era saw the team age extremely quickly once Livingston went down. Obviously if a great slasher SF/SG is around, then it would be a good trade, but trading just to trade is complete nonsense. Bledsoe is young and cheap and talented….you can’t trade that away unless you’re getting something very good back.

That is what Cleveland thought

and we saw what happened to them. I’d rather win that championship too. But if we don’t make it then we set ourselves up to lose Paul. Is it worth it?

What about bringing Nick Young back to Cali...

I don't understand the negative vibe

In this article. The team is third in the Western Conference. Olshey has completely transformed the team seemingly overnight. When the CP3 opportunity came along he took it. Yeah he’s got to move some pieces around but these aren’t “mistakes.”

I see a team that is just beginning to gel. The players like Mo don’t have to fit a mold – they just need to play well and play well together. KMart fits in well with the team and his signing bodes well for the future.

I’m bullish on the team and I’m comfortable giving Olshey some rope given what he’s done and how the team has responded. I really enjoy this team. Let’s see what happens.

Negative vibe?

Unintentional. I’m still not convinced by the front office moves. I don’t know why we’re watching Gomes, Foye, and Cook get any minutes. I don’t know why they’re still on the team. Holding onto Bledsoe (if you can trade him, and I’m not sure you can) is baffling. The Chris Paul trade was great. The team is good. Doesn’t mean you can’t do better.

To be fair Gomes and Cook getting minutes is on Vinny.
Steve has already debunked your argument Swami

And really you’re picking nits here IMO. this almost seems like an attempt to generate page views.

Really?

How do I benefit by getting page views?

I said "almost seems like"

I don’t think you did it for that reason,

Every team has players that aren't playing as well as you'd like

Every single team.

I'm with Swami on this one

Oshley has done a great job with pulling triggers on some moves, but I’m not completely convinced. Everything seemed to have fallen completely in Oshleys lap. If it wasn’t for Blake Griffin, we wouldn’t be where we are today. He made great moves – Chris Paul, Butler, Billups, but that shouldn’t have been a surprise. Trading a top 10 player(even if people THOUGHT he has knee problems) for a good SG who obviously gets hurt even more should have been a no brainer, emotional values aside. Caron Butler should have been an easy signing, we have always needed a wing player since Maggette, and putting a small bid on Billups? Comon.

It was last year when he struck out on every single angle and in a desperate attempt went and signed guys like Gomes, Foye, and Cook that gives me that bad taste.

I give credit for pulling some good business moves- all of which fell in his laps, in my opinion of course, but I’m also not completely convinced with Oshley.

Completly agree

I think he is going to win executive of the year, i don’t think he should. He hasn’t really done any outstanding deal, getting CP3 doesn’t count. Had he manage to keep one of EJ or Minny pick then he would have make an outstanding deal, he make an obvious deal we win by getting Paul, NOH won by getting an excellent rebulding package and we bid agaisnt ourselves.

so we are doomed?

I don’t get this idea: if something good happens it is thanks to the players and if something bad happens it is the fault of Neil Oshley or VDN. Make up your mind people… .

Let’s revisit the deal:

  • EJ has been injured since the beginning of the season.
  • Talks of an extension broke down and we learned that EJ wants near max money, something we couldn’t offer him.
  • Aminu is still Aminu: an energetic psychical gifted but very raw project which will take some time to work out, if he ever does.
  • the minny pick: Minny is on 0.500 and is in the hunt for the play-offs. I don’t think they’ll make it but at best the Minny pick is a late lottery pick
  • They have been unable to move Kaman

In the end I think that with EJ the deal will never happen. I think the Stern was willing to let Paul walk unless he could get a very good deal.

I don't know were you are going

Was the deal for Paul good ?? Yes, i just don’t think you should give Olshey executive of the year for it, he gave much more than any other team could have given for Paul, was it worth it ?? Yes. I just think he hasn’t done anything extraordinary.

he has made alot of moves

Probably the best being picking up Chauncey off of amnesty.

But he aslo signed an all-star SF(Butler), retained a stud center (DJ), picked up two quality backup bigs on the cheap (Evans and Martin), and he might not be done yet.

Not to mention that he traded an injury-prone undersized shooting guard who can’t rebound, a fledgling SF prospect, and declining injury prone center for the best PG in basketball.

Executive of the Year will go to Olshey simply because he has done a great job. Who else in the NBA has made the moves Neil has? His detractors metion the Baron/Mo trade, Foye, Comes, and Cook. But none of those were this year.

Also, Olshey has made a great deal of high-profile moves (Involving acquiring 4 all-stars for 0). No other team has been successful with the massive turnover like LAC.

Say what?

Didn’t say Oshley is undeserving of the award (so far) this year. This was more of an analysis of Oshley’s cumulative term.

Those who don't value him

Don’t understand business. He’s obviously been very successful and we are lucky to have him. Any other view is nonsense. Chuckles in particular continues to attack because Olshey’s moves proved him so wrong last year.

Oshley's moves proved him so wrong last year?

Foye, Gomes, Cook, Vinny? Really?

Most teams/FO will have their share of duds

and the jury is still out on VDN in my opinion.

I think Jax is referring to

CC wanting to sign Outlaw/Childress to their large contracts and thus limit our capspace.

I don’t want to get in the middle of JAx/CC, and I don’t know for certain that CC said these things, but I believe this is what Jax refers to.

I definitely would want Childress

it would mean they never signed Foye or Gomes.

Again

not trying to step on anyone’s toes or spark something between you and Jax. Just wanted to make sure that Jack considered things Olshey didn’t do, as well as things he did.

I'm with you LJ.

I think Olshey’s done a good job. But he’s made some mistakes too… and I think he’s hanging on to guys too long. I think Bledsoe is the reigning example.
Clips shifted into “win now” mode because when they picked up Paul they had to… if they have any chance of keeping him (and Griffin). So why keep marginal guys around if you can bring back something that fits better? The “if” is of course the unknown element of that sentence.

Again

All teams have players like Foye – see Perrin, Steve.

Since Olshey has now created a team that is second in the West, he deserves some trust.

What exactly do you think his mistakes were, and why are you focusing on very minor issues when we have a team here that is just starting to gel, is playing very well, and is obviously fun to watch?

I said it! Jax, do you read?!

The Clippers have fifteen months with Chris Paul! You want him longer, than WIN SOMETHING NOW!
I’m not hating on Randy Foye. He’s fine! To be honest, I think you’ll get more for Eric Bledsoe and I’d trade him in a heartbeat. Clippers need a defensive wing! When Paul or Billups is in with Williams, they’re a terrible defensive team! You’d have to be blind not to see that!
GET BETTER NOW!

But why are you so worried?

Why not let Olshey have some rope here? They are 2nd in the West currently.

even for 2M a year extra?

because I’m guessing that’s the kind of money you’d to throw at him to sway him to sign for the clippers of yesteryear.

But Childress wasn't an option

He was S&T to Phoenix and he didn’t wanted to come here.

Which is why chuckles criticisms are so unfounded
Clippers never even pursued him

and they signed Gomes and Foye on the first day of free agency.

But we are speaking hypothetically anyways, so hypothetically had the Clippers convinced Childress to come here they would not have signed Gomes and possibly not Foye either. Which means they’d have a rotation worthy wing player right now capable of starting or playing 20-25 minutes a night as a key bench player versus whatever crap Foye and Gomes are giving us right now.

that still depends on Phoenix being wrong

on not playing him much… . Ever considered he is worse then before he went to Greece?

He is what he is

a highly efficient scorer, slasher, solid defensive player and terrific wing rebounder. If you want him to be Larry Bird it’s not going to happen, the Suns/Gentry don’t play him even though he’s capable of doing the same thing he has always done. The only thing that appears to have dropped off is he somehow forgot how to shoot free throws.

he shoots a high %

but to call a guy averaging 3.5ppg a highly efficient scorer seems folly.

Maybe he simply knows that he isn’t a scorer?

Well its minutes based

He pretty much scores at the same rate as DJ per minute.

But all that matters is he takes good shots, leaving more shots for guys like CP3, Nash, Gortat, Griffin. It’s the guys that take bad shots that rob you of going to your stars.

He is terrible and we would be crucifying Olshey

If he signed him. Some people don’t realize that players can get worse.

And I’d much rather have what we have now – the product of a savvyopportunist GM.

Doubtful

considering how you aren’t complaining about how he spends 10million a year for Gomes, Foye and Cook right now I doubt you’d be crucifying anyone. You’d be complimenting Chili’s fro.

Nope - not complaining at all

By not wasting money on the overpriced aging hurt vets you wanted last year, he put us in a position to get CP3.

I’m good with that.

Stop pretending those are tied together

Foye, Gomes or Childress have ZERO to do with CP3 getting traded here.

Oh you myopic little mind

Signing those guys preserved our cap space for the signings that have resulted in the glorious year we are having now.

Now go back to work and pay for the six tickets that you claim to have.

Preserving cap space

Childress makes less than Foye Gomes and Cook do but a substantial amount.

Really? Please elaborate my man
He means just this year...

Per basketball-reference.com:
Childress = $6.5mil
Foye = $4.25mil
Gomes = $4mil

$6.5mil < $8.25mil

Overall, Childress costs more because his contract is longer, but I don’t think CC was talking about the future because you were talking about the ability to get CP3. Childress puts us over the cap in the future, while Foye/Gomes do not, but if we’re in win now mode, then this isn’t important.

This

I have to head out to lunch, thanks for clarifying my position.

This is so annoying

You have no idea whether they pursued him. His agent got him a sweetheart deal with the Suns and he wasn’t coming here.

Your FO (whom you hate so much) decided not to overpay for Childress and Miller (who also didn’t want to come here) and put the team you claim you love in the position to showcase BG and create a scenario where players like CP3 and Butler would want to come here and where we would have the capspace to get that done.

“Luck is a combination of opportunity and preparedness.”

Why don’t you just stop creating false criticisms and sit back and allow someone who obviously knows what he’s doing do his job? You were wrong last year and you’re still wrong now.

Wrong Wrong Wrong

Foye, Gomes and Cook were all mistakes, pretty obvious considering all the moves since 2010 have been done to push them out of the rotation completely.

You are ridiculous

They didn’t want to overspend.

Gomes’ stats were fine at the time signed.

Foye is serviceable.

Too bad you want to continuously argue despite Steve’s evisceration of your argument. Reallyl, please stop wasting our time with your attempts to hijack this board to try to rehabilitate your embarrassing fails from last year.

It’s getting real old.

SP didn't eviscerate anything

and none of the 3 signings are serviceable, hence the pursuit of JR Smith, Kenyon Martin and Reggie Evans. In a month none of those guys will hopefully be in the rotation.

Yes, he destroyed your argument

They are now getting players that would never have come here last year or ever during MDSr’s tenure. And they have the ability to sign them thanks to Olshey.

Next?

Not Olshey

The allure of Blake Griffin (and now CP3) are getting these guys to sign here.

If you say so
Lucky to have him?

He’s lucky to haved inherited a team with max cap space, the Minnesota pick, Blake Griffin, EJ, all their first round picks, big market etc etc.

He blew parts of the assets listed above and was fortunate the NBA gave him a do-over for CP3. That deal was crucial as Billups was unhappy about being picked up at the time as well. At the same time he did some good things as well, some were painfully obvious and I listed how and what moves should have been made.

honestly NO can do almost no good for you

we get that. We all are armchair GM’s.

How so

I liked SOME of the moves.

I was all about the CP3 trade
I like Reggie Evans signing
I like Kenyon Martin signing

Just saying its not necessarily Olshey doing anything special, those were no-brainer moves, I mean can you believe there are some people so stupid they thought the Clips shouldn’t the trade? I mean you would think some people would have the humility to accept that instead of pretending they backed the trade the entire time.

Just admit you were wrong about Olshey

Be a man

I'm sorry

I’m still laughing at you about being against the CP3 trade and now you are 100% behind it because your master Olshey made the deal.

I wasn't against the trade

Too bad you have to lie to deflect. My concern was that he would just bail but after seeing the press conference and learning how involved Olshey was I’m all for it.

Yes you were

I told you exactly why the Clips should make the trade well before it happened.

Once CP3 plays with BG he won’t want to leave
EJ is going to get overpaid by someone
Minnesota wasn’t going to be super bad this year
No way Kaman would be in a Clipper uniform in 2012-13 no matter what happened

Your lying only makes you look bad

I’ve said above exactly what happened.

What is truly funny is your new claim that you only ditched 4 of your supposed 6 season tix in protest.

That’s not what you said last year. Keep pushing and I’ll go back.

Doubt you have any season tix or had any back then.

I don't care what you think

but I do have season tickets and have tons of people who can vouch for it, even on this forum.

And one can ask Boltsfan here to talk about your CP3 views.

Just go back to my posts - it's all there my boy
You are ridiculous

Anyone can go back and see your lame vitriolic and ultimately wrong posts from last year – incessant. Your ultimate point was that Olshey sucked and you gave up your supposed season TIXHope in protest.

In one year he has the team light years forward. Success. Time to admit you were wrong.

Olshey 2010 sucked

All one has to do is look at Foye, Gomes and Cook.

And wtf you talking about, I still have season tickets. I just cut from 6 seats to 2 in protest as many others did and holy crap its as if the Clippers listened when revenue dropped.

Well

I can’t explain Cook.

But as for the other two, they were both decent fits for the team at that time, as short-term stopgaps. Gomes sucked, but nobody knew he would be that bad. Foye was an inneficient scorer. These are guys who play for rebuilding teams to help fill short-term holes and who aren’t productive enough to help a contender. I mean, without the CP3 trade and other moves, we probably aren’t a playoff team this season. And then Foye comes off the books. Next year, maybe we are a low seed, and by then we have used the minny pick to draft a future SF to take over when Gomes expires.

Olshey had a long-term plan that got fast-forwarded by Chris Paul. Gomes and Foye were the casualties.

As for Cook… well, at least he only costs us 1.5 mil or so.

Agree. It wasn't like we signed him for a ton of money.

You guys are arguing for perfection.

even Pop and RC buford make mistakes

Exactly - anyone with intelligence can see that

He didn’t run around wasting money like Chuckles screamed about. He waited for the right opportunity, cleared cap space and struck.

You think Gomes Foye and Cook was money well spent?

Hi Bernie?

Didn't seem to hurt

See standings

And go re read Steve’s post on the subject which eviscerated your pedestrian arguments.

Those guys are useless

once the Clips stop playing them the team has played better.

And SP used PER, we’ve already proven how PER is not a good way to measure players.

When did we prove PER wasn't a good way to measure players?

It’s not perfect, but it’s not totally off-base either. In a pinch, it’s fine. Any flaws it has aren’t very noticeable with players who have as little usage as Gomes and Foye. With guys like Kobe, sure, its flaws are obvious, but with guys taking between 5-15 shots a game, you’re really looking at a pretty minor impact from those flaws.

PER overvalues scoring totals

without dinging them for shooting poorly.

According to PER Randy Foye and Trey Thompkins are better than Evans, doesn’t that sound wrong to you?

I agree with that shortfall

But I don’t think Foye is really being benefited that much. This is why I look at both PER and WS, which are conveniently on the same website and WS doesn’t have that same flaw.

Look at when Foye's scoring totals dropped (went from 14 attempts to 8 attempts) while his efficiency remained constant.

His PER was almost exactly the same. And it wasn’t because he magically did other things better, as his WS48 also remained the same. So I’m left wondering, if 8-shot-Foye is the same as 14-shot-Foye, does PER really overvalue him for shooting as much as he does?

Put it this way: I think PER undervalues Evans more than it overvalues Foye.

I assume you are looking at basketball-ref?

PER should as Foye’s TSP% is below the league average (50.8%).

Also his win score is .061 (league average is .100) so he’s below. Now compared to the rest of the bench not named Evans or Williams that’s not horrible.

Another good reference is www.wagesofwin.com (you can also ask Michael White nicely to handcraft this years Wins Produced) which uses another metric called Wins Produced. That formula loves Reggie Evans, is more tolerable of Gomes and dislikes Foye (based of 2010-2011 numbers).

Whoa whoa, I never said they were good.

It doesn’t matter if you use WP or WS, I was using WS/48 as a parallel metric to show that Randy Foye has always sucked, regardless of how many shots he takes. The volume of shots he takes at a low percentage isn’t increasing his value much at all.

In 2008-09 he took 14 shots at 51.7% TS% (which is crap), his PER was at 13.7 (which is crap), and his WS/48 was at .059 (which is crap).

In 2010-11 he took 8.4 shots at 50.8% TS% (which is crap), his PER was at 12.5 (which is crap), and his WS/48 was at .051 (which is crap).

See how his # of attempts doesn’t really seem to matter at all? Maybe there’s some effect, but it’s minor. Basically, I’m seeing this: his TS% goes down, his PER and WS/48 go down. Doesn’t seem to represent any of PER’s flaws to me.

As I said, the problem isn’t how PER values Randy Foye, it’s how PER values Reggie Evans.

Umm

his shot attempts didn’t go down per 36 (which would be the same for per 48). That’s why his WS/48 hasn’t changed because he’s taken the same amount of shots.

Durrr Erik

Well that was amateur-ish of me.

Oh snap

Check it out! Finally a database with WP48 that’s easy to search!!

http://www.thenbageek.com/players

LOL

Randy Foye: WP48 .004
Ryan Gomes: WP48 -.020
Brian Cook: WP48 -0.382
Josh Childress: WP48 0.204
Reggie Evans: WP48 0.152

Yea

Good news

Kenyon Martin (last year): WP48 .113
JR Smith (last year): WP .153

We could definitely use these former Nuggets.

You myopically focus on what doesn't matter

Which tells me that you’re young and immature.

Learn something – be quiet and watch your competent FO at work.

Smart people listen. Try it some time.

Smart people listen to people worth listening to

there’s a very valid reason no one listens to you.

No one = Chuckles

And perhaps if you’d listened to me last year you wouldn’t waste so much time this year trying to rehabilite yourself by picking nits

Actually quite a few smart posters listen to me

and we have a respectful discussion regarding basketball analysis. You should try it sometimes.

I do - but I also call you on your posts

When appropriate.

It could be argued that 2010 Olshey was living with the left over baggage

of Duneavy

Clippers were set up NICELY for summer 2010

They had BG waiting in the wings, they already had DJ, EJ. They had all those draft picks and they had max cap space. They had a great situation once they made a bunch of cap clearing deals before the trade deadline.

But you "protested" like a baby

Doubt you had any season tickets. all just talk on a board.

I'll be a CN

and I was one of the 5 season ticket holders who RSVPed.

I’ve been to multiple CNs, I’ve given away tickets and season ticket event stuff to other members here.

If anyone is all talk its you, now go away weirdo.

Fool I have 6 seats now. been a ticket holder since 2001

I’m in my 20’s and sell 3 of the tix to pay for the others. I have a small yearly salary invested in TIX. So if thats what your looking for, there it is.

That's a good idea

I never thought to buy tickets to fund tickets. All you need is the capital up front, and you can make money when the Clips are good.

Well it takes work

and most years you can buy tickets for most games for below STH prices on secondary sites or even the team itself will run promotions that uncut the season ticket holder pricing. The real benefit of being a STH was private events such as autograph signings, draft parties, facility visits, free swag.

Yea, I really like autograph alley and stuff.
You could still get tickets

for below face value on stubhub…

Still don’t see the benefit of being a STH besides having your own personal Clippers seat for your ass and the private events.

It's nice to get to know the people around you

We ganged up on some stupid Laker fans in our section, half of which were in the wrong section (seriously like 8 Laker fans couldn’t tell the difference between 218 and 217).

Not anymore

Some games perhaps you can but most games against other playoff teams are selling for over face value. And the ones against the marquee teams like the Heat, Lakers, Thunder etc are going for double or triple the STH price.

Well I got a new plan for next year now.

Somehow this never occurred to me.

Well yes

but then again I’m pretty cheap. I don’t usually go to the bigger games. Games like Bucks, Hawks, Warriors, Sac, etc work okay with me as long as my tickets come at a decent rate.

Jesus, you had 6 seats?

If I remember correctly you’re in your 20’s like me… how can you afford that??

Work hard play hard

also I used them to give to clients, family and occasionally sold them to friends (those were some bad birthday gifts in 2009). One year the PR seats were super cheap though, I want to say $990 per seat for the season.

wow

you guys would go crazy if you knew the price to go watch a soccer game on peru, it’s WAYYYY cheaper.

Well

the per capita in Peru is only a fifth of the US. Also don’t soccer stadiums hold like 100,000 people? Not to mention the NBA players are paid so much while the players in Peru probably aren’t getting paid millions.

100K is a bit of an exaggeration

And yes all you say are probably the reason, still 8$ is as expensive as they get for regular games and those are the top teams, of course salaries are really, really lower.

I totally understand. Im a Flamengo fan.

So when I went to Brazil to watch them play in Maracana stadium in Rio it was cheap. But i barely escaped with my life.

Highly doubt it
Alot of people were discussing the EOY award

In my mind, right now, there is no doubt.

Ha

am I questioning who it’s going to? Nah. Seems to me anytime a team goes from laughing stock to contenders, the GM is given a lot of the credit, in this case, deservingly so. I’m not going to say he doesn’t deserve this years EOTY award because not many GM’s have made much moves.

But I am rating him on his overall moves, which includes last year.

Not to mention that when we add in the success of Oshley, we usually don’t factor why he has become so “successful.”

he has been dealt a great hand

but you still have to make all the “obvious” moves.

Yes

thus why I’m not sold on Oshley.

In the two years, he’s done an okay job. I think he could’ve done better, which is why I’m not so quick on labeling him a great GM.

It is far more than that my friend
Again

did I say you were? NO!

XXDC2XX was saying above that Olshey did not deserve it. That would be why I responded to him.

Overall, he has still done more good than harm.Amnesty Gomes, lt Foye/Cook walk this summer, sign a new coach, and all of Olsheys negative moves are erased. Last year, Foye was helpful to this team. Even this year, he has had some solid games. Nobody expected Gomes to be this bad.

The point is, Olshey hasn’t been around forever. And the move for CP3 uprooted the foundation he was laying down. Let him finish his product.

“Sign a new coach”
That is if Oshley is willing to admit to the idea that VDN was a mistake. But again, people are split here. Seems like 50% doesn’t seem him as a good coach, and the other see’s him as one. We’re going to have to see what Oshley really thinks of our coach.

LOL and no, Foye was not helpful to a team. If Foye was, we would have won more than 32 games. I mean, you of all people LJ, can’t tell me you want Foye to be on our roster and the future of this organization. How much longer can you take the 22 second ball holding and then chucking an ugly shot? He’s a little like our shooting guard version of Al Thornton.

I don't tout Foye as an all-star

but he is what he is: a guy who can create a shot. He isn’t effecient enough to be on a good team, like this year. But he helps out on rebuilding teams with alot of inconsistant youth, like last year. How badly would we have been in that stretch w/o EJ had we not had Foye?

Who can create a shot?>

Holding the ball and being contested doesn’t mean he is creating a shot. If so, Al Thornton created many shots.

Hmm, he helps out teams by being a body on the floor, but one can argue that he hurts a team more with is inconsistency as well as his bad shot seletion than helps. Yeah he can score 15, but those are some ugly shots.

Al Thornton could create a shot

Fans loved him for a while.

As a starter last year, Foye had 16/4 on 41% shooting. As I said, he is not a star. He is simply a guy who can put up some numbers to help out an ailing, rebuilding team. On a relatively cheap, two-year deal, he fit last season. Now that we are contenders, he doesn’t really fit in well.

If by this...
He is simply a guy who can put up some numbers to help out an ailing, rebuilding team

You mean he was bad enough to cost them some games they’d might otherwise win (thus improving draft position) if Foye was a good basketball player than I agree. In fact it worked really well for the Cavs.

So in your silly little mind

Gilbert gladly paid $30 M (amnesty cost for BD) just to get a 2% chance for Kyrie Irving.

LOL – go ask him if he’d do it again knowing he’d have to amnesty BD.

We already crunched the numbers

all your figures are off substantially.

And he’ll yes he’d do it, have you seen Kyrie Irving? Do you know anything about basketball other than blindly following Olshey?

Yes, we have, and you're wrong

A 2% chance at Kyrie isn’t worth wasting $30M. Unless you’re spending someone else’s money or have no common sense.

Heh

show how its 30m, how its 2% etc etc. All wrong figures.

Oh ok

$25M, $30M – again you miss the forest for the trees

2%, 3% – same deal

Stop wasting our time.

Hmmm

Yes, the gamble worked out (so obviously Gilbert would say he would do it again), but really he increased his chances from 25% Kyrie to 27.8% Kyrie. Or really, he increased his odds of getting a top 3 pick from 64.3% to 74.3%. That’s a pretty good increase. Kyrie’s been insanely good, Williams has been bad, and Kanter’s been very solid.

Disagree

Gilbert would agree knowing he’d have to amnesty BD for that 2.% chance.

Sorry Erik

He only amnesties Baron if he doesn't get Kyrie

You must see that.

If he gets Williams or Kanter, then he doesn’t amnesty Baron.

Disagree

They realized BD is not worth the money.

Wait, what?

I hate to chime in on this but you think the Cavs made the trade because they thought Baron would make them better?
They knew they were going to suck for the next few years so took the opportunity to grab a top 10 pick in a trade. So what if Baron still had 2 years left they weren’t going to be any good those years. Plus if they were lucky he’d play well and they could trade him later for anything.
But the Cavs lucked into the 1st pick who happened to the play the same position as Baron. They were intent on keeping Baron even with Irving but then Baron had his back injury. Once it was revealed that Baron was going to miss a good amount of time this year the Cavs knew he wasn’t going to be of any trade value this year. And then they’d be in the same predictment next year. Too amnesty or not. So they just let him go now. In fact it wasn’t Baron’s contract that Gilbert was worried about, it was that he would sign with the Heat and help them win a title

And Antoine Jamison IS worth the money?

No, he’s not, and neither was Baron. But if they are choosing who to amnesty, they amnesty the guy they just got a first pick for. Kind of like how we traded Zach Randolph for peanuts to make room for Blake.

If they drafted Kanter or Williams, you can bet your ass they would have amnestied Jamison instead.

everything is relative to a contract

considering he came in the old “we have to overpay for mediocre players” time I don’t see him as a huge failure.

Yes those moves were underwhelming, but none of those moves a) tied up huge sums of cap space for b) many years to come.

Which your FO turned into Butler, CP3, Billups,

KMart, Mo Williams, etc.

All in less than a year.

they were obvious moves

Except maybe Butler. Matching DJ was obvious and he didn’t manage to sign him to a more team friendly contract. He has make obvious moves, i think that MDsr would have make them too as would have most GM in the league, maybe i didn’t make myself clear enough, its not that he isnt good its that he hasn’t done anything that wows me, i think that any GM with our assets would have get us CP3. however i might have over reacted when saying he doesn’t deserve EOY.

DJ was always going to test the market
Yes i know

Had he manage to extend him to a cheaper contract i would put it as great management, it just doesn’t seem so impressive to just match the offer. LJ gives him credit for retaining DJ, but DJ was restricted and we had matching rights there’s hardly any merit to it.

well that would imply that DJ and his manager had a brain freeze

bit difficult to hold that against NO

Not holding it agaisnt NO

I am just not ready to give him credit for it.

Many people on here did not want to match that contract

and were angry when Olshey did. Obviously, it turned out ok

people tend to forget that you have to find a replacement center

if you don’t resign DJ. And those don’t grow on trees. Or you’d have to keep Kaman but then you can’t deal him to get CP3.

young, semi-productive center with potential

has to see what kind of market there is for him

Test the market

but I’m pretty sure DJ knew that Oshley was going to match almost any offer within the 10Mil limit. It’s too bad since I still don’t think DJ is worth 10 Mil.

I think he is

you have to overpay for centers. And he has so far played quite well

DJ is overpaid

but it is hard to compare the center position with others. The NBA lacks alot of talent at the 5, to the point where just being athletic enough to dunk and block shots makes you valuable as a starter.

Tyson Chandler is making 13mil to put up 11.5, 10, and 1…
DJ is making 10mil to put up 8.5, 9, and 3…

Considering DJ’s upside, that is a good contract. Honestly, DJ is a better deal than Chandler at this point, costing 3mil less and only slightly worse numbers.

DJ is not overpaid

He is a center and that’s the cost for a center. When you have Kwame making 7 million, 10 for DJ is not much.

Your saying you would have let him go?
No, i said he wasn't overpaid.
Kwame is overpaid as well

DJ will more than make his money later in this deal. Right now, he probably isn’t worth his 10mil. But he might be worth 8.5,

He's worth 10 million a year

There are very few good big men in the league right now. He’s a top 10 center already even if he’s almost a defensive and dunking specialist.

he has had some nice non dunk finishes this season

I think has has refined his offensive game, even if it is only by a foot or so :)

I'm waiting for the day when he attempts a shot from outside the key

even though I know that when he does, we will all get mad unless he makes it.

The bad ones don't make the obvious moves.

Just because they were obvious shouldn’t count against him. We didn’t overpay for CP3 and he made that deal happen in the end.

CP3 would never have come here for MDSr

Neither would Butller. And BG would leave

You are making up crap

BG can’t because of max contracts etc etc
CP3 got traded here and came here because of BG and DJ not Olshey
And Small Forward X would come here for 8mil/year

MDSr never signed anyone in 7 years

EB ran. He overpaid BD.

Olshey has brought you the 2nd team in theWest. You’re not really a clipper fan. This thread is all about proving u right. Lame

Years of being bad

accumulating a lot of draft picks and getting lucky with Blake Griffin has led to team with the 2nd best record in the West.

Stop wasting our time
Admit it

MDSr got the assets that the Clippers used to trade for CP3

I will admit that he sucked so bad that he was able to get BG

Really, MDSr was awesome

and he also

drafted EJ, DJ, acquired the Minnesota pick and never traded any of the Clippers future picks (which turned out to be AFA, another trade asset).

He was horrible

Winning record one year in seven.

Which was their season ever

and much better than the previous 20 years of DTS ownership. And he started the practice facility, first coach to get a real extension and got the franchise to start behaving like a real NBA team. MDSr did some things right, even someone like you has to admit that.

Much better?

Yes he squandered a chance to do well.

By record not much better.

Sub .400 is horrible.

How did he squander a chance to do well?

I missed the story where he broke Shaun’s knee, shot an arrow into FElton’s heel, broke Blake’s kneecap and twisted Kaman’s ankle. He got this team headed in the right direction in many ways, only a delusional madman can completely ignore this.

I hate Dunleavy

but I’d give him his share of respect. I wanted Dunleavy fire, he wasn’t the right fit for the team. It’s highly unfortunate that we were unable to see Dunleavy with todays current team, especially since Dunleavy was constantly plagued with an injury filled team.

With that said

it’s pretty hard to ignore that MDSr did inadvertingly help bring in CP3 with all the assets. Blake Griffin was the difference maker in changing the different perspectives and Oshley pulled the trigger. All three had their paws on this deal. What is there to argue about?

Exactly

This whole argument, repeated over and over and over again, is so f***ing stupid. CC and Jax are both part right and both part wrong, and both are also too strident and stubborn to ever acknowledge the obvious truths in the other’s point of view.

Dunleavy had some serious flaws, particularly as a coach, but he also unquestionably did a lot of good things that set the team up for future success, most notably getting DTS to open his wallet and make the Clippers start acting like a real NBA team.

Olshey has used the assets at his disposal to dramatically improve the team, but he has also made some mistakes. Thankfully, the mistakes he made were all small ones, unlike the whoppers truly terrible GMs routinely make, including many that were made in the 2010 offseason.

Most of us can see these shades of gray, and have no problem honestly discussing their existence. Meanwhile, 2 Citizens have dug into their positions so intractably that, for them, it now has to be all black or all white. And the result is that the same argument gets repeated ad nauseum for the sake of ego, providing exactly zero value to anyone.

Um, I've never said he made no mistakes

I said that in the key moves he’s done well. The mistakes are inconsequential.

Which is precisely what you copy above.

Please do not’ put words in my mouth or attempt to characterize my opinions since you invariably get it wrong.

Thanks,

Jax

I think you misunderstood bolts

Here’s how I see it:

  1. Jax is aware that Olshey made good moves and has had minor mistakes. Jax is right.
  2. ClipperChuck is aware that MDSr. did a lot of good to turn the team into a real NBA team, but he wasn’t a perfect coach by any means. ClipperChuck is right.
  3. Both Jax and ClipperChuck are unwilling to accept what the other is already aware of. Jax and ClipperChuck are both wrong.

Therefore, as bolts said, “CC and Jax are both part right and both part wrong, and both are also too strident and stubborn to ever acknowledge the obvious truths in the other’s point of view.”

The only way bolts got it wrong is if you, Jax, are willing to acknowledge #2, and if CC is willing to acknowledge #1.

CC has at least separated 2010 Olshey from 2011 Olshey, saying that he thinks 2011 Olshey has been fine. So why not take CC’s lead and just differentiate: you hated MDSr. as a coach and think he did nothing to further the organization (despite the best season in Clipper history, a .400 record outweighs that), but you are willing to accept that MDSr. as GM was able to get DTS to spend money on a practice facility and on players, and ultimately helped the team get where it is today.

This is exhausting trying to lay this out so simply, but it’s worth it if it ends this incredibly annoying argument that has gone on forever and is really, truly unimportant now, except for one person to say, “I told you so!”

btw

(Not attempting to put those words in your mouth or suggest that you think MDSr. the GM was any good, but just throwing it out there as a convenient option that allows you to meet halfway without compromising your position on MDSr.’s tenure as head coach.)

Thanks for amplifying/clarifying, Erik

My response likely would have been less measured and well thought out. I’d only add one other point (call it #2.5):

2.5. Olshey’s 2010 offseason signings were indeed quite bad (Chuck is right), but they were only C- or D bad, not F bad, in that they were of relatively short duration for relatively little money, and thus did little or no lasting damage (Jax is right).

If only there was a D-...

In reality, none of those signings probably should have ever been made- let alone at the beginning of free agency.

It would have made sense if he said that the reasons for the signings were a result of missed opportunities, but that wasn’t exactly the case.

Regardless, overall, Oshley did a nice job in pulling the trigger. He is now given numerous resources because of the opportunity of playing with Griffin and Paul. To me, it’s going to be very hard to compare Oshley’s work with VDN’s work because of the different type of atmosphere’s these GM’s are working with. Given the style of Griffin, who honestly knows how Dunleavy would have structured the team? Or even given the style of Brand, what woudl Oshely really have done? In other words, Griffin is the X-Factor.

THANK YOU for this.

We really need to put this issue to bed.

I have said this before

people get awards because they do the obvious things. When people get cute, things become funny (Khaaaan). In the end most good moves are obvious moves.

let's put it this way

the Oscars usually go to big star director with the big budget and the big star actors. No doubt in any given year, there a lot of movies where people have done relative more with a lot less. But those films will only be remember by a select few in 10 years time.

I like this

The assets fell in our lap, and we got rid of them before they lost their value to us as trade assets. Maybe this was just dumb luck by Olshey, but he gets at least some credit for not succumbing to the trap that all of the trade assets turned out to be.

Not to beat a dead horse...

but its wayyyyy bitter

Gomes, Foye and Cook were mistakes

There is no way to say they weren’t, maybe there weren’t as big mistakes as Childress or Outlaw but they were mistakes.

also we are in second place not third.
ayoooo

Thanks Lakers, for that one.

Childress wouldn't be a mistake

The guy tries on defense, only shoots high percentage shots and is an excellent wing rebounder. Exactly what the Clips could use off the bench. And unlike Foye and Gomes he’d be giving the team some quality production off the bench.

Now Outlaw, yea he would be a mistake.

Strongly disagree

He has 2 more season after this on his deal for 7 million each, i wouldn’t touch that contract unless they gave us back a pick.

Trade Gomes for him in a heart beat

he’s a very good bench player if Gentry is smart enough to play him. Lately he has.

I wouldn't

You can use the amnesty on Gomes, not on Childress.

+1

Childress on Gomes deal: yes please. Otherwise: no thanks.

by which I mean

Childress with a contract like Gomes

ignore first answer

I would give Gomes+Foye for him, can trade him as an expiring in 2 years., wouldn’t give Bledsoe for him.

Childress is livin in a hateful world.
I don't agree

As Jax stated, if the Clips had signed Childress, everyone would be up in arms over the signing. Foye comes off the books next year. He also has minimal trade value. It’s not exactly wise to get back a marginal player like Childress, with a longer contract, just for teh sake of unloading Foye.

Childress plays in PHX, which should boost his offenseive #’s. Still, his numbers are horrible. You can argue Foye right NOW is better than Childress.

Of course he is

And he’s FAR less expensive. JChill was almost amnestied.

Chuckles just wastes threads to try to support his mistaken arguments.

Being amnestied

doesn’t mean you can’t ball. Look at Billups.

LOL

First, BD hasn’t played 1 minute this year. So no, he can’t ball.

Second, you miss the point completely. The reason why they’d amnesty him is because they’d rather spend the money on someone else.

They didn't amnesty him

and actually that’s why they didn’t amnesty him because there was no one better to sign. There weren’t many free agents this off-season with everyone having opted out in 2010.

How do you know why they didn't amnesty him?

Maybe they didn’t want to waste the money. Of course you don’t understand that because you are fond of spending other peoples’ money. But in the real world these decisions are not easy to make.

How do you know they were close to amnestying him?

They didn’t which means more than any speculating on how close they were to amnestying him. It wouldn’t make sense to amnesty someone unless you were already under the cap (see Knicks) or over the luxury tax (see Magic).

Read articles stating they were considering it

And why wouldn’t they be since he sucked last year.

They never amnestied him

so how does it matter anyways?

Because you argued in 10,000 posts that Olshey was stupid for not committing $25M for the guy

And then he stunk it up for the Suns.

Therefore, you were wrong. Admit it. For once.

I really wish you guys would use Simmons' new term, "amnesthetized."

It really adds to the comedy value of these arguments. As entertainers, you need to cater to your audience.

Why would playing on the Suns boost his numbers?

Nash doesn’t make you shoot better? In fact the Suns have a below average offense now (22nd).

Childress is much better, you are seeing it now that Gentry has started to play him.

It should but he's so sorry he can't get off the bench
Check his recent numbers

clearly you don’t know what’s going on outside of Olshey’s backseat.

Um, I know we're second in the West currently

If that’s kissing Olshey’s ass, then I’m guilty I guess.

And no, I haven’t been following overpaid Suns’ bench players lately. Apparently you’ve got alot of time on your hands.

Right

but you have time to comment on every comment.

Pot meet kettle.

No, just yours

No revisionist history for you.

Revisionist?

I lay out exactly where I stand on each position (I even listed what the Clips had to trade for CP3 back in February of LAST year) and the steps the Clips should take. You argue against Blake Griffin and trading for CP3. Like Boltsfan said, you’re a joke.

No, you're all about supporting your agenda

by any means necessary. Your positions are many times unreasonable and the supporting factual information is slanted by you in your arguments. Like what you said above about my prior positions.

If you have to resort to lying, you’ve lost.

Hey don't you have to do some work?

and my positions are quite reasonable, I accurately predicted quite a few things well before they happened.

Yes, you're a legend in your own mind

One of us predicted Olsney would do well – it certainly wasn’t you.

His current #'s are still bad

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/player/Josh-Childress/209345?q=Josh-Childress

7Pts and 5 Rb last game. This is playing on the SUNS! Steve Nash finds the open guy…..see Amare, QRich, Marion, etc regarding Life after Nash.

His numbers are Foye-like…and Foye’s contract expires this year.

Thanks for finding that

With Chuckles, you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. You can’t trust his claims about anything.

The first he is claiming he had 6 season tix before last year is now.

Do you not look at the minutes played?

He’s doing this in 17mpg. That’s 40 minutes of production from Ryan Gomes.

Wonder why the savior J Chil $5M / year only getting 17 mpg

Hmm

Because they have Grant Hill and Jared Dudley

and Gentry didn’t know what do with him. He plays he produces, its as simple as that.

Whatever you say

JChill is awesome. Gentry is a bad coach. You are the smartest ever.

Clearly.

Smarter than you

not saying a whole lot.

But Gentry is possibly a bad coach. It took him forever to play Gortat over Lopez.

I agree, this indicates bad management and very good SF play, nothing more.

Doesn’t really indicate anything about Childress being a bad ballplayer (despite his good stats). Just that Phoenix has a lot of talent at 3 spots (PG, SF, C), but is still losing a ton of games. Ergo, if they were smart, they would trade one of those SF for a decent SG/PF, and they could be back in the playoffs.

You can't just extend out the timeline

Some players have the same production if they’re on the court 20 min or 35 min. Just because he had that output against the Bobcats doesn’t mean he’d have that type of output against a superior defenseive team like the Lakers.

Childress doesn’t get big minutes because he’s not good. I think letting Foye expire out is more sensible. Maybe we should make a run at AK47 next year instead?

Players maintain the same production with increased minutes

Look at Gortat and DJ. Or look back at Childress pre-Greece, he had the same numbers (sans free throw shooting) playing 28-32 mpg.

A guy only getting 17 mins is probably spends a majority of the time against second units

So you can’t really project that into how he would do getting 35 mins a game against starters.

And to comment on what I read above, yes, Steve Nash makes players better shooters. He will get you open shots.

Yes, but how do you correct them?

Raffo asks why are they still on the team, but what can you do with them? Also, in relation to the article, I don’t think you can count the rookies as guys Olshey is hanging on to. They’re 1/3 of the way through their first season.

most of his mistakes will be of the book by the end of the season
The 2nd round guys aren't a problem

they aren’t guaranteed deals next season. You want some cheap young guys as your 13th-15th guys and hopefully one of them pans out to something. This really only becomes a problem if you have a huge rash of injuries like the Clips in 2008-2009.

Let's see

Olshey – brought us the team currently in second in the West.

Chuckles – blog poster who constantly criticizes Olshey for everything imaginable.

I think I’ll go with Olshey

Everything?

I like some Olshey moves (in fact I suggest them well in advance and he then does something similar). I hate the 2010 moves, it was a disaster where he went 0/3 and squandered some assets.

You miss the forest for the trees

He got the team to second in the West becuase in part of those moves.

You predicted disaster (in 10,000 separate posts) and the opposite happened. As I predicted.

I understand why you’re trying to rehabilitate yourself now, but since you fail to admit you were wrong, you’re never gonna get there. No matter how much time you waste here.

The team is 2nd in the west?

because of Gomes, Foye and Cook? Holy crap.

Newsflash

If your NBA team is second in the West your management is probably doing ok.

That doesn't mean they didn't screw up a long the way

by signing bad players and trading away draft picks.

Maybe but why focus on that?

Oh yeah, it’s all about you refusing to admit you were wrong.

How was I wrong about 2010 signings again?

If Gomes, Foye and Cook were actually good then I would admit it but they aren’t… far from it in fact.

You predicted Olshey would run the team into the ground

Supposedly you gave up your season tix to protest (now you claim you had 6 and only gave up 4 – yeah ok).

In reality – the opposite has happened. But do you admit you were wrong? No, no you don’t.

Olshey nearly did

trading away a unprotected pick and squandering max cap space on Gomes and Foye. Got lucky the NBA gave him a 2nd crack at CP3.

The Gomes and Foye signings were bad

They’ve produced very little, yet take up a disproportionate amount of cap space.

The Baron/Mo trade has turned out to be great, but it was iffy at the time, especially when the lotto ball came up #1 for the Clips. Just goes to show that the impact of most trades is not always immediately evident.

The Billups grab was brilliant, and the Paul trade was a no-brainer. The remaining cap space left room for KMart, who was intrigued by the possibility of playing with Chauncey again.

I give Olshey high marks. He has taken full advantage of the lucky breaks that have come the Clippers way.

I give him high marks too

THIS year. Not in 2010.

And yes the Clips have caught a lot of big breaks, with the Billups amnesty, to the Nuggets in China, to the NBA Paul-Gate.

It's the overall job of Oshley

CC is talking about.

Throw in also how people view the current teams success is 100% Oshley and there is the arguement.

no one is saying that

cc gives the guy no credit

He just gave him credit for 2011

He just gives the guy no credit for 2010. But does he really deserve any credit for 2010? You’ve already admitted that you agree he made some minor missteps, and they were all in 2010. 2010 = minor missteps, 2011 = major awesomeness.

Steve, who would you prefer, Trevor Ariza or Jared Dudley?

Both could be probably had for Eric Bledsoe and Randy Foye…

Probably no

The assumption that people are jumping to get Foye because his contract is expiring is NOT true. Teams want draft picks…the Clips don’t have much of those left. Bledsoe is coming back from injury, I think teams want to see him play a few games before pulling the trigger.

Well

I think the Hornets who are in cost cutting mode would be happy to get rid of all the long term contracts of players over 25 or so. The question is whether other teams have the room under the luxury tax for the next few years to add him.

For Ariza I’d see if they would take Gomes. Alternatively Foye can work and they can amnesty Gomes.

I'm not sure Ariza is right for us

his offence has really fallen into a chasm. And his contract, whilst not unbearable, doesn’t really appeal to me.

His deal is for 2 more seasons after this

so its really one year longer than Gomes. He does fit the Clippers need, especially if he’s the LAL version of Ariza who plays off the ball and just hustles. In his post LAL days he’s been trying to create his own shot (and shots for others) which has pretty bad results.

Two things to consider for Ariza though

1) Clippers wouldn’t be able to amnesty Ariza
2) An expiring contract in 2013-2014 which may be a good thing for a team over the salary cap by then.

we are over the salary cap now

we will be WAY over by then. But I get your point.

I mean in the sense

you can you his contract as filler to fill positions of need. When you are capped out you have limited options to make trades (see Lakers). Worst case you can use late 1st round picks/cash to dump him on a team with cap space that is rebuilding.

JR Smith is a good player

My main concern is that he would screw up Mo’s mojo, which would lead to a worse bench. I would be perfectly fine with getting Bogans or Jamario Moon, and then waiving Cook/Jones or Leslie/Thompkins.

Bogans and Moon play average to slightly above average defense, and can hit the 3. This would push Gomes to deep reserve at the 3/4, and since both of them can also play the 2, they can lower Foye’s minutes when he isnt playing well.

Honestly, just give me Bogans and Moon, and drop Cook and Leslie.

Bogans got signed to NJ
Maybe Cartier Martin then?
he's a non factor
Bledsoe and one of the second round pics for......

Landry Fields. We have a need and so do the Knicks. Money wise I think it works.

Fields is much lower paid then Bledsoe

we would need to take back a minimum contract as well.

And I would do this trade in a heartbeat.

Could we throw in the trade exception and Bled for Fields then?
you can't mix trade exception with players.
wouldn't work anyways

Bled for Fields is 1.5 for .75
Bled+ TPE for Fields is 5.3 for .75
Still doesn’t work

but if the difference is a minimut contract

can they S&T someone and we waive him ??

no midseason s&t

the easy answer is to take Jerome Jordan or some other nobody on their bench

He started playing better again :(

(picked him up in 3 fantasy leagues just now)

I hope we keep Bledsoe

with Chris Paul mentoring him he could be like a Rondo type PG

trade bledsoe if we can

I would trade bledsoe if we can to get better now. He is good but not really proven and we have a good chance of being awesome for years. I like our combo of cp3, mo, and chunce at guards. Of course we could get better and get a big guard but ever team can get better in one way or another.

Mo to me is another player not to be traded unless we get an offer we can’t refuse. Mo to me has been the surprise this year and he’s getting smarter. His scoring has been awesome but the last few games he got smart and was looking to pass the ball to the big men and some passes he made were cp3 like. Had some awesome lobs and the one to DJ while he was going out of bounds and had to wait for DJ was awesome. He also acknowledge the other game in crunch time he shot to early and we needed to run out the clock more with the lead in crunch time. They’ll be more bledsoe’s in the draft down the road.

I remember when fans were saying we gave up too much with the cp3 trade and people will miss Gordon and Kaman. So we miss them now? I and a few of us were saying the trade was awesome and we have the finishers now, those who win in crunch time. We saw a few of those games already when the Same Old Clippers would have lost. So those Bledsoe fans don’t fall in love with him unless he was a proven crunch time winner and if traded we can all cry over trading him.

Good article

just not enough mention of how crucial Blake Griffin has been to this team/organization. No one wanted to play for the Clippers whether it was Larry Brown/Dunleavy/Olshey making the FO moves. But Blake is so good and exciting that other good players gravitate towards him.

Playing in Los Angeles doesn’t hurt either.

Funny - SI the other day described Olshey as "savvy."

What did MDSr do in 7 years? Biggest moves were chasing away EB and ridiculously overpaying BD.

What has Olshey done in a year? Brought your Clippers to 2nd in the West.

Chasing away EB and signing BD

turned out to be the best thing for the Clippers. They unintentionally tanked themselves into the draft rights to Blake Griffin, the real reason for the Clippers renaissance.

Again, you miss the point completely

He chased away the franchise player that they had to have. Didn’t bode well. the fact that EB got injured has nothing to do with MDSr’s ineptness.

BD wsa horrible and it wasn’t until Olshey found a sucker in Gilbert that they were able to right that wrong.

Olshey indeed has played the BG card well.

He didn't only do that

He also got us EJ, make easily the best trade ever for the Minny Pick and got DTS to start spending and the overpaying for BD make a lot of people happy here when first reported.

On a side note

Bledsoe reminds me a lot like Mike Taylor, just a bit more controlled. Seems like Taylor had more offensive game, but Bledsoe is a little bit more controlled, although still not saying much.

How about Ty Lawson, Barea, or Aaron Brooks?

Does Bledsoe have a future to be any of them? If so, keeping Bledsoe around would be worth it. Things can go both ways. He can end up like a Taylor, or develop into a Lawson. We’ll see. Trading for a young wing would be nice….but not for a half yr rental.

keep eb

Bledsoe is an energy player, he’s an xfactor. He gives you a lot of things that stats don’t show, he’s fiesty and gets loose balls and can actually keep up with blake and dj. I don’t mind us having so many guards because they are all unique, the thing that needs to be adressed is the defense at the 2/3. We basically need gomes to do his job, since he’s failed we need a replacement not to blame bledsoe for not developing quickly enough. Olsheys biggest mistake is believing ryan gomes is who is advertised as, we need to get rid of cook and or gomes and call up jamario moon he was much better.

I have been looking around the league for players that would fit our need, but it is not easy to find something probable

A guy I would absolutely LOVE is Jimmy Butler from the Bulls. Another guy is C.J. Miles from Utah. I don’t even know if these guys are possibilities, but I believe they would fit in very well with the team. I’m also very reluctant, when it comes to trading Bledsoe, but if a deal could be made, bringing in in either of these players, I would consider it

Kenyon is 34

not 35

Right

he just turned 34 at the end of 2011. Not that it matters a whole lot, he’s probably just a rental for the rest of the year.

I'll fix it. But CChuck's right, you're not marrying him, he's a rental.
Are you saying you wouldn't marry Kenyon?

Kenyon Martin is a saint. A SAINT.

What the fuck are you talking about?????

you don’t even know what we gave up for Bledsoe. The value is undetermined. It’s a top 10 protected 1st round pick. Essentially we got Bledsoe (18th pick) for essentially a current 2012 draft pick valued at a 24th pick which according to NBADRAFT>NET wiould net us a shitty Plumlee brother

STOP TRYING TO BE BILL SIMMONS Rafo.

calm down kiddo
and for the record

I wouldn’t mind a Plumlee

Bledsoe ultimately cost the Clippers more than that

they couldn’t protect their lottery pick in 2011 because of the Bledsoe trade.

Also the Clips refusal to add Bledsoe to the CP3 trade is rumored to have almost killed the deal so one has to think they value (even overvalue) him.

But it didn't so stop wasting our time
Pretty sure the not being able to protect the 2011 pick

was kind of a big deal.

Now stop responding unless you are going to provide something insightful. Well just stop responding in general will be a nice start.

It stopped us from protecting the 2011 pick?

I thought we could have still protected it top 3 or something?

We owed OKC a pick starting in 2012

because of that we couldn’t protect our pick in 2011 without a bunch of restrictions or else we’d have traded consecutive draft picks.

I left out some details but that’s the gist of it.

I see...

Well that blows.

Right...

Olshey loved Bledsoe so much he gambled on giving up a future pick… and then had to trade the 2011 pick without restrictions. The pick that wound up being Kyrie Irving… a far better player than Bledsoe. That sucked.

No, it didn't

The key to the trade was getting rid of BD, who Gilbert promptly amnestied for $30M. Somethimng we’d never do.

Without that phenomenal deal, CP3 would not be here, would not want to be here, and would never have come here.

We’d obviously never amnesty BD.

Props to your FO. I’m fine with giving him a little rope on Bledsoe.

Arguing about the Baron/Mo/pick trade is a black hole...

We disagree. Done.

Can this be the new tagline of ClipperNation?

I can’t believe this is still being argued about everyday.

Seriously

It’s so completely and utterly irrelevant for the 2011-2012 season.

not to me sorry
How does it matter at all?

Who cares about who gets credit for where we are today? Is this just vengeance against MDSr. or something? Or is it just about proving CC wrong? Please, please, please explain to me how this has anything to do with what’s happening this season, or the future.

Can’t you just be happy with where we are now and not fuss about how it’s in spite of or because of a person who no longer works here?

Always with the f-bombs...

It was very clearly stated not to cuss on this site when you agreed to the terms. Like the first line.

Not much Simmons in this one Akram...

I know exactly what the Clips gave up… a future #1 of unknown provenance… which ultiimately tied their hands because you can’t trade two consecutive picks.
But cool it with the profanity. And spell my name right.

It's an acronym: R.A.F.O.

Restricted Agent Finding Octopus

Revisionist Augmented Fuzzy Obnoxious

Their adjectives that suit my demeanor in a not entirely clear pattern. It’s what I strove for, not who I am.

Gah! Not "their", "they're"... "strive, not "strove", okay forget it, makes just as much sense the first way.
Unfortunately due to lackluster performance in the area of spelling and grammar

We are going to have to let you go, Mr. Raffo. Please pack up your things, and security will escort you off the premises.

Rather Awful Fresh Opinion
Roofies Are for (Erik) O.
Indeed they are, my friend.

Indeed they are.

Teams in general

can get pretty lucky. Look at the Wolves and how terrible Kahn has been yet they have through years of ineptitude acquired enough talent in spite of Kahn to become a respectable team now. The Grizzlies botched a number of lottery picks and have still become pretty good.

that's about it

same thing with coaches; some of the HoF coaches still around had the luck of working with HoF players at the start of their career. Even players: sometimes you are just at the right place and time for good things to happen (Fisher!)

Part 1 of the season

The Clippers have had a colorful history with players. However, this year they are really coming out of their shell. With one of the toughest beginning schedules in the NBA the Clippers have made a name for themselves. It will be a fun season to watch as Lob City works their way around the country.

possible acquisitions

Love Dudley & Chandler. Either one would be a major plus at small forward position offensively & defensively & are also young. Caron is a wonderful player,but I have real concerns about his physical ability to play a whole season without breaking down. Gomes has been terrible & while Foye is serviceable, he & the three guard offense are clearly not the answer.

Good point on Butler.

Watch now, as I’m attempt to jam my foot further down my throat:
Isn’t it a little irresponsible to keep an extra body like Bledsoe around when you’ve got an absolutely hellish schedule laid out in front of you and no adequate backup at the four?

Kenyon Martin?
At the three? Ugh.
But, but, but ... we have Gomes!

And since the Clippers have the 2nd-best record in the Western Conference, by the transitive property that means Gomes is good even if his PER is 4.5 and his WS/48 is -0.028, doesn’t it?

You think Gomes is bad

Think about Cook. I rather have somebody who can play some D than someone who can’t shoot, no offensive game, and can’t play D.

At the four
NO adequate backup at the four?

I thought that’s what you said, hence Kmart.

Gonna go with "typo" on that one
Please answer with What is.

But that is correct. Choose your next category.

Sarcastic Comments for 400, Alex.
We decimated this post last night. There's like 390 comments

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