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Thoughts After Clippers-Bucks

Obviously, the win over the Bucks Saturday night was not exactly a thing of beauty. But it was a win, which is in and of itself something. The 50 loss Clippers of last season had plenty of wins over top teams. What they also had were far too many terrible losses to bad and injury-depleted teams. It's a long season, and there will be good wins, bad losses, ugly wins and good losses along the way. Playoff teams keep the bad losses to a minimum. And let's face facts - the Clippers took the lead 90 seconds into the second half against the Bucks and never trailed again. It wasn't pretty - but it wasn't much in doubt either. Bear in mind that this would have been a double digit lead the entire second half had the Clippers simply made their free throws.

With the season debut of Reggie Evans, I think there are some interesting observations to be made on the team at this point.

Star-divide

  • Big man rotation - Evans is clearly going to be a major improvement over Brian Cook and/Trey Thompkins as the first big off the bench. Over the long haul, coach Vinny Del Negro will want a fourth big in the mix, but in a tight game, he could get by with a three man rotation of Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan and Evans. It remains to be seen who among the other three bigs on the roster - Cook, Thompkins or new-comer Solomon Jones - can provide adequate spot minutes, but Cook has gotten the opportunities early in the season, and one can only hope someone else will get their shot. For now though, having Evans and pushing Cook a little further down the depth chart is going to be a major boost for the bench.
  • Free throw shooting - The Clippers were particularly bad at two things last season: committing turnovers and free throw shooting. In both disciplines they ranked 29th out of 30 NBA teams. The additions of Chris Paul and Chauncey Billups have allowed a complete reversal on the turnover problem, where the Clippers are now second (just behind Philadelphia) in turnovers per game. But free throw shooting is as bad as ever, with the team in dead last. Griffin was supposed to improve, but has actually regressed, shooting just over 61% over the first six games. Meanwhile, Jordan is as bad as ever, but the Clippers are now more dependent on him, while Evans doesn't help things a bit with his 52% career average (and 1 for 6 debut). With either Evans or Jordan needed on the floor at the end of most games, it will be interesting to see if teams begin to intentionally foul the Clippers when trailing late. Scott Skiles appeared to try it once last night, fouling Jordan with over 6 minutes left. For whatever reason, he chose not to return to the strategy when Jordan made one of two, but it's likely that the Clippers will see more intentional fouls as the season progresses.
  • The three guard lineup - Vinny Del Negro went with Chris Paul, Chauncey Billups and Mo Williams for 4 plus minutes of the fourth quarter last night. As Kevin Arnovitz tweeted, all three were starting point guards last season and for most of their careers, but one of them was ostensibly a small forward against the Bucks. It's fairly clear that three of the Clippers top six players are in fact point guards, so wanting to get them minutes is understandable, and the three guard lineup may be inevitable. But I strongly question it's use last night. The Bucks were a severely depleted team with few viable options on offense. Stephen Jackson is one of only two Bucks from last night with a semblance of an offensive game, and by playing the three guards, forcing Billups to defend Jackson, VDN was handing Milwaukee an offensive strategy where they previously had none. They got away with it last night (Jackson drew a couple of fouls and blew a layup, but didn't do much damage), but that wasn't the team against which to use the three guard lineup, in my opinion.
  • Ryan Gomes - Part of the reason for the three guard lineup is an apparent aversion to playing Gomes, who did not make a second half appearance last night. However, can we all agree that Gomes is preferable in most circumstances to Cook? In fact, if there's a viable five on the floor, why would the Clippers not play Gomes over Cook at the four? Gomes and Cook both get plenty of criticism among the citizen of Clips Nation, but it seems clear to me that one of them is a reasonable NBA rotation player, and it ain't Cook.
  • Big guards - The two issues above will be particularly important in the coming week, when the Clippers play Portland (Wes Matthews, Jamal Crawford), Miami (Dwyane Wade) and the Lakers (I forget the name of their shooting guard, but he's pretty big I think). Chauncey Billups will have his hands full defending those guys, and VDN may have to get creative using the likes of Caron Butler, Gomes, Randy Foye or even Travis Leslie to try to combat the size of those wings.
  • Jordan's D - Maybe we should start calling him D-Andre. Citizen SilverClip pointed it out in his recap, but as much as anyone Saturday night, DeAndre Jordan won that game, and he did it with his defense. Off the top of my head, he blocked two shots, forced and won two jump balls, and forced Drew Gooden into an airball in the fourth quarter alone. He needs to avoid picking up silly fouls, but he may yet turn into the defensive force he's being paid to be.

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Comments

Yes a win is a win

One of those games I am glad I watched on TV rather than paid a lot of money to see in person. One of the few Clippers games that was a little boring to me (kind of like watching the New Look Lakers)

Big Guards

I think that we will be fine in some situations with taller guards. Crawford, while tall, isn’t strong, and so wedidn’t have to worry about him in the post or on strong drives. Against the Lakers, I’m fine with putting Butler on Kobe and moving Billups on to Barnes, as Matt doesn’t threaten me offensively. The Heat are a whole other story. With Wade at SG, quick as Crawford and strong as Kobe, it makes sense to put Butler there again. But that would mean moving Billups onto… LeBron. Hopefully Wade is still out when we play them, but otherwise I expect to see the opposite of the three guard lineup for stretches… possibly a lineup featuring Williams, Butler, Gomes, Evans, Cook/Trey/Solomon when the reserves come in, as Butler often plays with the second unit, which allows him to score.

That 2nd lineup was in the game for a little while I believe in the Bucks game

And Mo and Caron connected a few times.

There is simply no way to guard the Heat. The only 3 teams off the top of my head are Grizzlies (Allen, Gay), Bulls (Deng, Brewer), and Heat (Johnson, Smith).

I think we would just have to tough it out with Billups on Wade and pray.

maybe put Paul on Billups for a little

I don’t want him to get in foul trouble, but Wade is a suspect shooter and I think Paul could stay in front of him.

Think you mean Paul on Wade
where's the edit button?

sigh. Yes, that’s what I meant.

when we won last year,

gomes did a fairly adequate job on james. about as adequate as you could ask for.

butler on wade and gomes on lebron isn’t TOO scary..at least

I'm telling you.....

I’m telling you we need someone to step up on the clippers and say I wanna guard labron, or I wanna Kobe, I wanna guard so on so forth….. cp3 is the only 1 that see do this!

that’s the defensive mindset that we need from this team!
need to step up and make a commitment to defense! stoppin the star players on the other team! that’s what I love about chris paul he’s a thinking man’s player and he will hold these clippers players accountable!

yeah we need edit button!
I'd put

butler on wade and gomes on lebron…. but im no NBA coach. lol those are the only guys i can see with the size/strength to keep those guys out of the paint. also we need to limit our turnovers that game big time because their cherry picking is all i ever see from their highlights on espn.

I got an idea..

Just for one game, why not give all of Ryan Gomes’s minutes to Travis Leslie? I want to see what he can do. I don’t see anything bad about this move, because honestly, it’s not like Ryan is a stud anyways. I think Travis is very talented and he should definitely get some PT.

he seems very raw

and he is very small for a SF

Can he really be that worse than Gomes?
yes
Ehh... One game won't hurt

I’m willing to try it. Leslie’s athletic ability will make up for his lack of height.

One game could mean one loss.

having a player who is an absolute liabity can make an opponent player catch fire.

You my friend, drive a very hard bargain.
I'm not a Gomes fan

but he is fine at 8-10 min a game. Leslie simply isn’t ready to play meaningful NBA minutes.

gomes only purpose is rebounding and he can guard bigger SFs

Unfortunately for us leslie isn’t big enough to play the 3. If he shows that he can give us some kinda lift off the bench I would definitely put him in the rotation over gomes, or just put gomes at the 4 and just let cook and gomes fight for minutes.

"OKC's Eric Maynor is out for season with torn ACL"

Trade either Mo or Bled for Thabo and Daquan Cook?

They would not do that trade

Harden is already a 6th man and a better player than Mo despite being younger. I suppose if they traded Thabo he would move to be starter, and Mo would take over the 6th man role.

Bledsoe is exactly the type of PG they dont want- like a much lesser version of Westbrook. They need a guy who can run an offense, and give the ball to Durant and Harden, as well as make 3s.

A trade with Mo might be on, but I doubt it. I suspect they roll with Reggie Evans, who looks to be a decent prospect, sign another backup like Zabian Dowdell, and thats it. Or they could trade for a backup like Ronnie Price or Sebastion Telfair (suns).

You're right

I’m not trading Mo… It seems like he is getting use to is new role. Very happy to see that.

Thoughts.

I think the 3 guard rotation also had issues because they all seemed to want the ball. In one play, CP3 passed it to Billups and Mo assumed it was a bad pass to him, so they clashed and they were called for a back court.
Next, was it just me, or were the no calls much more blatant than in the past? I recall two particular plays in which Blake was hit and was unable to get up a shot, but the refs just let it go. I think he has tried to work on his complaining, because he just looked around in shock and awe instead of complaining to the refs.
Finally, is there any reason not to give Cook/Gomes time to Thompkins? I think Thompkins works as both a 3 and 4. And yes, if anyone knows me, I have said that NUMEROUS times. Why? Well, long story short, I think Thompkins has the assets of a 3. And I think Leslie can earn his spot at 2 or 3, but he needs time to prove it! I don’t see why VDN insists on giving the dynamic duo of Cook/Gomes minutes when they haven’t proven anything.

thompkins is too slow for the 3
this

There’s just no way around it. I’m not sure Thompkins will ever become an adequate defender at the 4, much less the 3.

Thompkins and Leslie have to earn it on the training field

it is not because Gomes and Cook aren’t good, 2 second round picks will be better. And Thompkins isn’t a 3, whatever way you spin it.

I'm not comparing their skills.

But if you are questioning his build, Kevin Durant is generally the same build (+-10 lbs) and he is the best 3 in the game. No way I am comparing them, but still, he can be effective as a 3. Thompkins can pass the ball, he is a perimeter shooter, and he seems to get rebounds via non boxing out. (Ralph likes to put it, “He is always at the right place at the right time.”) I honestly haven’t seen him as extremely slow. From what I can tell, he is faster than Gomes, especially becomes Gomes seems a tad out of shape. And if they have to earn it on the training field, Cook has to earn it on the court. I think Gomes has earned it much more than Cook has.

He's not a SF man

Let’s just say that Ryan Gomes can blow past him. SFs need to guard SGs in the NBA, Thompkins just can’t do that.

SF's need to guard SF's.

I highly doubt the fact that Gomes can blow past Thompkins. Who knows, maybe I am completely wrong, but I think Thompkins guarding Jackson> Billups guarding Jackson.

Also.

Like I said, I agree, I may be completely off the mark when I think he can be an effective 3, not to mention, VDN would most likely never play him as 3. But I did some snooping around the internet a while back on this.

Strengths:
* Good face-up game
* Can score in the post
* Can put the ball on the floor
* Good passer and comfortable facilitating offense
* Solid shot blocker

Reminds me of:
Lamar Odom. Similar size, similar ability to score with a face-up game.

I also read that he “won’t win foot races,” so I suppose he is slow, but I think he will still be more effective than a Ryan Gomes who seems slow and out of shape. Gomes doesn’t dribble nor does he look to rebound. He passes the ball, but he is an average passer. Overall, I think Thompkins is comparable to a less versatile Lamar as stated above. His dribbling/drive isn’t as good as Lamar’s, but he isn’t afraid to shoot or pass. He posses a speed which I think is comparable/better than Lamar’s too. His shot can use some consistency, but I think it is solid.

I like Thompkins

but he does seem slower than Gomes fo sho!

I actually like the 3 guard offense for small durations

It creates a matchup nightmare, especially if they try to put their 3 on Mo. However, when we do use it, Cook can not be in the game. None of the 3 guards are good rebounders. Adding Cook in there is an open invitation to the offensive glass for our opponents. If 2 out of the Blake/DeAndre/Evans trio are out there, we can get away with it.

Cook has the highest DRB% (24.7)

of clips who play more then 5 minutes per game and have played more then one game. Get your facts right before you post.

so with those stats you think Cook should play 40 minutes

and he is the rebounding answer to our woes as being the last ranked rebounding team in the NBA? Come on, seriously? The guys defense is definitely suspect too.

and as a "shooter"

he is 24% fg and 29%3pt… c’mon man!

no he isn't

but you can’t say he is giving away offensive rebounds.

Cook isn’t the answer, but he sure isn’t the problem on that account. Thompkins has a DRB% of 8. In the end, Because we traded Kaman Cook has to fill the back up 5 by default. And in my opinion he has played his little heart out. We hired him as a stretch 4 not a defensive 5.

Now that Reggie is back he’ll play less, which is a good thing. And lets hope Solomon is worth something.

lol
he has played his little heart out.
yes he has

it like asking the cook to fix the plumbing. He’s not good at it but he tries.

I just thought it was funny
he is "The Little Engine That Couldn't"
I just looked up Solomon's DRB%

around 15% for his career. Let’s be thankful we have Reggie.

he has been playing his heart out

But he’s not a true big that can protect the basket. My point is that in the 3 guard offense, the two bigs need to be plus rebounders, that’s just not who cookie is as a player. If he’s in with deandre and Gomes/butler, he’s a good compliment to them, at least once his shot starts falling. For 5-10 minutes a game, cook is fine

You're putting claims in his mouth.

He’s just stating a fact and there’s nothing wrong with that. Frankly, I’m glad there are people here that do research and don’t just spout off opinions based on selective attention and biases.

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I'm imagining that you passed out on your keyboard.
No, more like the chub kept pushing the "0" button

when I saw the phrase “selective attention and biases.”

and his career rate is 16.2%

Which is significantly worse than Blake/deandre and Evans

Actually, CP3's avg is 4.5 rebounds

pretty darn good for a PG let alone one of his stature.

and 2.2 this season

I would be glad if he averages over 3 per game

CP3

Will end up around 3.5 reb a game. He’ll get a triple double soon

This

I’m tired of worrying about how we match up with the other team. How about considering how the other team can’t match with us? Sure, Billups on SJax could be a problem, but isn’t there the added benefit that Billups pulls SJax (and his long arms) way away from the bucket? And then you have Mo Williams forcing the likes of Carlos Delfino or whoever to run around to catch one of the quickest guys in the NBA. It’s just about whether the defense we give up is worth the offense we gain.

Yes

Against most teams, I think the 3 guard lineup will give us a better mismatch than we give up, especially if we have DeAndre and Evans manning the paint. If Chauney has to guard Lebron, it’s a different story. I like that we’re trying different lineups to see how all our playmakers can work together.

I think so too

This isn’t a 3-guard lineup with Foye in it… it’s 3 all-star guards with deadly scoring abilities.

foye is not an all star

the 3 are billups Paul and williams. Caron and Blake are the other all stars

Huh?

That’s what I was saying… this is not the 3-guard lineup with Foye. Rather, it’s the all-star version. Ya feel me?

because

I hate the 3-guard lineup when it features only 1 all-star (i.e. the Mo/Baron + Foye + Bledsoe version that made me puke a little).

ah

my mistake. Misread your original post.

It's all good :D

I would be quick to correct too if I thought someone said Foye was an all star hahaha

ugh

Does anyone really consider Mo or Caron allstars at this point? Theres a huge difference between current all stars and veterans in their decline (and Mo was the beneficiary of needing more than one allstar on a 65 game win team)

Yeah but there's still a huge difference between a former all-star and a guy who never even at the peak of his career was close to being an all-star

And so far, both Mo and Caron are playing somewhat near their former all-star levels. Both from a PER and WS/48 standpoint, anyway.

This win is such a confidence booster!

Knowing that if a game is ugly, and it indeed goes down to the wire, we have 2 calm, level-headed floor generals on the court that are more than capable of leading us to a victory. Getting Chauncey has to be one of the top 5 biggest acquisitions in the NBA so far. He has provided us needed veteran leadership, and he’s a good defender, and a knock down 3 point shooter. That Chris Paul guy is ok too.

seriously, Billups is a ninja at drawing fouls

This week is a huge test for the team…

Reggie Evans reminds me of Bo Outlaw

Scrappy dude who doesn’t have much talenr…but makes up for it by outworking guys.

rebounding like him requires some talent

otherwise everybody could do it

ehh a knack for predicting how the ball will bounce

but other than that its all heart and scrappiness

which are talents

people naturally assume that anybody can be all heart and snappiness but in fact not many are.

True

Often players with limited talent in one area of their game will work especially hard in another to make up for it. They are always going to be role players but role players are very important in this league.
Reggie is going to be a cult figure here, you could tell that after the first 3 rebounds in about 2 mins. Our Enforcer!

I agree

Talent isn’t something that’s fully measurable, but when you’re the number one rebounder in the league last season, especially considering the amount of minutes played, that requires talent.

I understand what banady was trying to say though

not “traditionally” talented, obviously. He’s not going to wow anyone with amazing ball handling or shooting. Even people say Blake isn’t “talented” because he’s not shooting 3’s like Dirk, Kevin Love, or LMA, though so yea, it’s all relative..

to be fair, i didnt say he had no talent
It Was Nice See Reggie Out There

doing his thing and grabbing some balls on the rebound.

The Clippers play New Orleans on March 22nd

That game could be a real ball buster.

I see what you did. Well played.
Or as Jim Harrick Once Said On An Upcoming Basketball Game
“It’s gonna be another ballburner.”

5th audio from the top on the link above

Gomes...

is too inconsistent. He always tries, but whether or not he finds his groove is dice roll. He’s driving me a little insane. We can count on Cook for giving us what he has. Not the case with Ryan.

I think we ought to use our 15th spot for a defensive wing at the vets minimum. We don’t need Ariza, just a 6’ 7" guy with good lateral movement. Is Moon still available?

And Moon could hit 3s if I recall well...
Yes

And so is Q Ross

The more i watch these games Cook and Gomes are worthless.

I would rather see the rookie get some time to develop him. He just need some
minutes to get some confidence and show his stuff. Trey can play the three or
four. His three pointer looks prettier than Cook’s line drive. We don’t need
Ariza his contract stinks.

Did anyone notice how Reggie brought up blake's level of defense/rebounding?

Reggie was getting major fan appreciation for his hustle and rebounding and blake went sky high for rebounds after that and actually got some blocks too. I think it was really smart for our team to get a guy who can show our paint players how to outwork the other team out there defensively. We have to remember that blake is still young and so is DJ, these guys can get distracted and emotional when the game doesn’t go their way. Evans can show them how to impact a game through toughness and rebounding, something that doesn’t require a lot of skill but still allows you to win games.

no doubt...it's the Tebow effect, Reggie Evans-style!
You mean Teball effect.
Reggie made Blake go ballistic on the Bucks!
Balls out, indeed, for Blake
drew gooden said this about blake!

@MadelynBurkeDrew Gooden on Blake Griffin: “he’s a beast. He is my favorite power forward in the league by far…” #AllStar

still like Gomes off the bench

But never play Cook again

Griffin/Thompkins/Evans/Cook
Jordan/Evans/Jones/Cook

come on now

trey over Reggie? Evans pretty plainly becomes our 1st big off the bench every game from here on out.

Only way I see Trey coming out over Reggie is if Blake's in foul trouble and we need more offense than Reggie + DJ.

Of course VDN would play Cookie under this scenario, but that’s because VDN’s mullet is affecting his judgment.

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