The dreaded second of back to back games. On the road. In Utah. Without Chris Paul. Without Mo Williams. The odds were not too hot for the Clippers heading into this contest. But the Clippers didn't just lose. They did not simply fail to cover the spread (vegas lines opened with clippers getting 4 points). The Clippers completely mailed this game in. Here is the box score, for those of you brave enough to read it.
I am not a fan of any team throwing away games (I take that back, I was pretty thrilled when we tanked at the end of 06' to ensure our matchup with the Denver Nuggets), but if there was ever a night to do so, this was it. Historically, teams are much less likely to win the second of back to back games when on the road. When you consider that the Clippers just won the first of three games in three days against New Jersey, why not take off the one game out of three you are most likely to lose anyway? I am not saying that the Clippers tanked, per se, but they definitely did not give a great effort. Disappointing to watch, but what can you do?. Let Paul and Williams get healthy, and bounce back with a better effort at home against Dallas.
Now for some game breakdown. Chris Paul's absence means the Clippers are downgrading at both back court spots. Chauncey Billups is still a savvy, veteran player with plenty of game left, but he simply doesn't bring to the table what Chris Paul does. And where Chauncey Billups is still a capable enough starter at the two, Randy Foye is not a quality starter at the shooting guard spot. In addition to not being as good as Chauncey, he doesn't get the benefit of the open looks created by Chris Paul. As a result, the backcourt was completely ineffective tonight (7-26 from the floor, 3-10 from three). The ineffectiveness of the backcourt had an impact on the rest of the offense as well. From the outset, the Clippers were settling for long jumpers, with very little success. The offense was stagnant, with little to no ball movement. The Clippers shot 36.5% as a team, and continued their abysmal free throw shooting. Luckily, the Clippers' stellar defensive effort would keep them in the game.
Oh wait, that didn't happen. The Clippers defense was even worse than the offense. The team was flat footed from the outset. The Jazz offense was fluid, and still seemed a lot like the old Jerry Sloan offense, getting them good looks at the rim and mid range jumpers. The Clippers were slow on rotations, did not close out on shooters, and did an atrocious job against the pick n roll. For a 5 minute period ion the first half, the Clippers managed to make CJ Miles look like Clyde Drexler. This is an indication that things are not going well. And when CJ Miles and Alec Burks have the same amount of points as Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap on fewer shots, things officially did not go well.
There is no question that when healthy, the Clippers are in a class above the Utah Jazz. However, as has been the case for about 20 years, the Jazz play hard and execute their offense, especially at home. It takes a maximum effort to go into Utah and come away with a win. The Clippers didnt do this tonight, and the result was as you would expect. The Clippers may not have tanked the game, but they certainly didn't come to play. It will be very interesting to see how they respond tomorrow night at Staples against the World champs.
Some thoughts:
I thought Blake Griffin actually played pretty well. At the very least, he seemed to be playing with some energy, which is more than can be said for the rest of the team. When Chris Paul is out, (hopefully not something they have to worry about too often) the offense needs to go through Blake Griffin, but it needs to go into him in the low block. He isn't a dominant post scorer yet, but he is still a handful for opposing defenses ( and I'll take my chances with Blake working on the block over 20 footers from Randy Foye. The pick and pop/pick and roll is great, but if Blake is settling for 19 footers, the other team is not going to complain.
Courtney Fortson played pretty admirably tonight. He is undersized but quick, and he definitely looks to pass first. It might not be with the Clippers this season, but I think he will be on a roster has backup guard in the future.
Deandre Jordan was a non factor tonight. His inability to create for himself on offense really stands out on a night when the other starters are struggling.
8 rebounds and a block to go along with 2 points is not getting it done DJ.
Free throw Shooting: just a shade above 60% for the Clippers tonight. This needs to improve. Theres no reason that a roster with Chris Paul, Chauncey Billups, and Caron Butler in the starting lineup should be this consitently bad.
Fear not fellow citizens. It was ugly and disappointing for a full 48 minutes, but this was a throw away game for the Clippers, and they are going to be just fine. Chris Paul and Mo WIlliams will be back soon, and the Clipper's mojo will come back with them.
0 recs | 109 comments
Toughest game of the year by far
really makes the thread move slowly, but we got some Jumbaco magic in there.
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
And probably about to get tougher...
lovinglosangeles - January 17, 2012
... I'm gonna need lots more photoshops...
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
You can say that again!
lovinglosangeles - January 17, 2012
maybe a few gif's...
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
A few more gifs??
ClipperBEAST - January 17, 2012
:(
We can do better!!
clips_ftw - January 17, 2012
FT shooting
the reason it is bad is because while CP3, Caron, Chauncey, stc are all great, Blake and DJ are bad and shoot way more free throws. So they drag the whole team down. We really need CP3 back.
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
Since we're Clipper fans, it is never too early to
start demanding we trade CP3 for someone else, fire VDN and a bunch of other trades. :-)
lovinglosangeles - January 17, 2012
Throwaway
If tonights game was a throwaway, why not have cp3 and mo stay home instead of traveling to salt lake?
hadouken! - January 17, 2012 via mobile
it wasn't a throwaway
but when it started badly Vinny cut his losses. Both traveled either because:
A) they were game-time decisions
B) they wanted to be with the team
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
Tonights game was more winnable than tomorrows
Unless Mo or CP3 are back, which I find unlikely. At least Vince Carter is out for Dallas. Anyone heard Vinny’s press conference? Dude was pissed! Also, Lawler said that no cameras were allowed in the Clipper locker room since they had a close meeting. Cra
Jayq - January 17, 2012
So VDN kicking butt and taking names?
lovinglosangeles - January 17, 2012
lots of lazy fouls
at one point in the second quarter I saw foye foul jefferson and i thought to myself… what are you even doing there, blake is right behind you…. but ya all those fouls really gave the clippers no rhythm. (however give credit to c-bill for that foul on harris. it was a hard foul but he wasn’t going to let him score on the play which is good)
cantthinkofagoodname - January 17, 2012
O.t. but if tomato is a fruit..
then is ketchup a smoothie???
ClipperBEAST - January 17, 2012
Just plain ketchup or Clamato included?
lovinglosangeles - January 17, 2012
SavageClipper - January 17, 2012
think im gonna bust a gut!
It’s too funny!!
ClipperBEAST - January 17, 2012
lovinglosangeles - January 17, 2012
this is like VDN tonight, but Vinny has better hair
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
BTW Johnny
good write up. It’s always hard to write after these blowout losses.
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
Jamal Tinsely had the worst travel ever
I’m talking about the around the waist lay up btw. Come on refs, I know you’re in Utah but he’s like moving in slo-mo
cliptakular - January 17, 2012
Tomorrow?
lovinglosangeles - January 17, 2012
I'm not so sure about this statement:
Clippers haven’t proven anything yet, other than the fact that they have the worst bench (next to the Lakers).
Newton Pham - January 17, 2012
we did beat the Heat and Lakers
and we won(even sloppy and against the nets) without our best player
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
The starting line up is way above the Utah Jazz but I agree with you
on our bench.
lovinglosangeles - January 17, 2012
jazz have quality backup bigs
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
Clips may not be deep but
When it comes to winning a close playoff game, we have 2 legit crunch time guys in CP and Billups, and that’s two more than the ‘deep’ Blazers, Nuggets, Jazz.
cassellmania - January 17, 2012
Which we lack...
lovinglosangeles - January 17, 2012
This statement
Reminds me of MDSR post game comments. Lovinglosangeles—-deserves a timeout for the boob gif!
Actually—so bummed about the loss that it was funny. Let’s hope our guys show up tomorrow. ;]
Clipperoo - January 17, 2012
Agreed
Clips are now 1-3 on the road (the sole win on Christmas against the Warriors). Elite teams win on the road. Granted SA, POR and UTA aren’t easy places to win at but they haven’t even been that close (the Blazers one they came back but they trailed almost the entire game). But let’s wait more than a month before talking down our opponents, that’s very Laker-like.
ClipperChuck - January 18, 2012
True but it is early and
Our team is learning to play together. Plus our best player and sixth man were out. Lakers too have one road win I believe. But your overall point is certai my correct.
Jax - January 18, 2012
Certainly
Jax - January 18, 2012
All these gifs...
Thought I was at LoneStarBall with all their whiney/brainless members for a second.
BrentSchmidt - January 17, 2012
zing!
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
Ha! I hope Howard didn't watch this one
cliptakular - January 17, 2012
lol...
Tomorrows headlines:“Clips off Superman’s list!”
Takebb909 - January 17, 2012 via mobile
Pretty much... Can't wait to hear what Sheridan will say about tonight's loss
lovinglosangeles - January 17, 2012
tonight's headlines already say the Clippers were never on his list.
chrisd - January 17, 2012
Hmm - so Howard's tweet was relevant
Jax - January 18, 2012
johnnyoc21
I just noticed. The recapper assigned tonight was johnnyoc21. The recapper assigned to the San Antonio blowout? johnnyoc21. Now I can’t decide whether to feel sorry for the guy or fire his ass.
Steve Perrin - January 17, 2012
Clearly Johnnyoc21
is not writing recaps the right way! His +/- is terrible.
ClipperChuck - January 17, 2012
can't be worse than Randy Foye's in this game.
chrisd - January 17, 2012
two tough home teams...
not fair…gotta give him an easy one
nauticazn25 - January 17, 2012
Minnesota or Toronto
on Friday or Sunday both seem easier
Though if CP3 is still out I’d be okay with splitting those. Clips are a pretty average team without him.
ClipperChuck - January 17, 2012
would the Clips be an average team if they traded out Griffin for Howard?
wilriv21 - January 18, 2012
Without CP3
the Clips are like last years team. Not awful but about a .500ish club maybe slightly worse. Now if you swapped out Howard for Blake they are probably a .600ish team even without CP3.
ClipperChuck - January 18, 2012
If Bargnani and Bayless Remain On Vacation
The Clippers shouldn’t have any trouble with Raptors
Buddahfan - January 18, 2012
it's weird to be more worried about the Twolves than another team
chrisd - January 18, 2012
Hey! I got us a win against Portland, by that logic!
LJ Hann - January 17, 2012
how do u go about assigning recaps, steve?
fwiw id love to take a crack at recapping a game before i go overseas for school in feb
shap - January 18, 2012
Interviews being held in Poetland.
PV Mike - January 18, 2012
I probably hould have told you this up front...
but the OC stands for oatmeal-raisin cookies.
johnnyoc21 - January 18, 2012
Ugly loss
well pretty much a flash back to last season where Gomes and Foye were logging heavy minutes. CP3 is a pretty big difference maker amirite?
ClipperChuck - January 17, 2012
When Bledsoe comes back...
…they’re going to have to trade Mo(and maybe someone else) for a legitimate big who has some rebounding and defensive skills and who can provide some offense. Williams is not happy with his status and there are teams that could use a point guard of his stature.
saxmanager - January 18, 2012
how do you now that Mo isn't happy?
he seems happy. He is playing like he always has. He hasn’t asked to leave.
LJ Hann - January 18, 2012
Good question....
…Eric Pincus, who I trust completely with his basketball insider knowledge, mentioned it in his last weekly chat: http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-with-eric-pincus-11712?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=nba-chat-with-eric-pincus-11712
saxmanager - January 18, 2012
Love Eric
facebook friends with him, great guy. Without looking through his chat, I’m going to reiterate my belief that until I hear it from Mo, I don’t trust it. This chat is Eri’s speculation
LJ Hann - January 18, 2012
I think
When you have a noon game it is not fully back to back cuz your rest time is longer. Imagine how excited we wudve been if they won this wiinable game w/out cp3
arman martikian - January 18, 2012 via mobile
Hey Clip nation, Laker fan here
Been really interested in joining another team forum and it was between the Clippers and Boston, but eventually i thought Clipper fans would ultimately be more interesting to me =)
Please guys i hope you dont think im trying to be hostile or troll, I’m just trying to converse with more fans of opposing teams, so hopefully you guys are all cool with it
Tough loss tonight, I didn’t watch much of the game, but i don’t think you guys should worry too much about this loss, missing Paul and Williams is HUGE no doubt you’ll bounce back and get some more wins in the column… Limited minutes i watched the offense really looked stagnant without CP3… With that being said, Jazz deserve credit, they played like beasts everytime i tuned in, in the second half…Also on a side not, i dont think you should be focusing on acquiring Howard, the Clips i believe just need maybe one more decent piece to come off the bench and theyre set to make a championship run and a trade for Howard will no doubt include Blake Griffin, and though Howard is an upgrade over Griffin, i think the Clippers team has designed their own unique character with Griffin and Jordan at the front and CP3 running the floor… Personally i dont even think the Lakers should make a run for D12 because really we wouldn’t be addressing our weaknesses at the guard position a Gasol trade would be much better…
Anyway hopefully I’ll be around the forums and making some Clipper friends =) Good luck for the next one guys…
Funkensteinn - January 18, 2012
good take
dont be afraid of us, we don’t hate all laker fans, just irrational ones that come here to talk about curses more than basketball. i also more or less agree with you and i wouldn’t want to give up griffin for howard, even if that’s a bit irrational myself.
this game was a trainwreck.
shap - January 18, 2012
Howard is definitely an upgrade over Griffin
But Griffin plays up-tempo ball and more or less does have a mid-range game at times which will only get better, Howard is very in the post, clog the lanes sort of player, though a CP3/Howard pairing would be ridiculous to see on the court, i just dont think this Clippers team can get him without sacrificing alot of their team, i mean lets be honest, If the Magic want Pau AND Bynum from the Lakers, imagine what they would ask the Clips to give up, i already think the Clips gave off too much in the CP3 trade especially when we consider the injuries Paul has been fighting with lately in his career… So D12 definitely a no no, but at the same time though i believe the Clips are one vital piece away, I just really dont know what your options are, not from a lack of options, but rather from a lack of research on my part… I’ll be very interested to see what route the Clippers take especially when you consider that they gave up alot of trading chips for CP3 already… Free agency maybe??
Funkensteinn - January 18, 2012
What "injuries Paul has been fighting lately in his career"?
I think you’re misinformed. Right now, he has a strained hamstring. Last year he missed two games… because of a concussion. The guy they traded? Eric Gordon? He’s played two games this year, missed thirty last year.
And, I don’t want to start an argument, but you know why Orlando wants more than just Andrew Bynum for Dwight Howard? Because Howard’s the best center in the game, and while Bynum’s plenty good, he’s averaged over thirty minutes a game just once in his career, and regularly misses 20 to 40 games a season.
I think, in general, the Clipper community values Blake Griffin over Howard because, with his athleticism, charisma, and talent, he’s single-handedly changed the perception of a franchise that’s suffered 30 years of bad management and bad play. I don’t think the Clippers are trading Griffin for anyone… and I mean anyone.
John Raffo - January 18, 2012
+1
Buddahfan - January 18, 2012
THIS
29 of the 30 teams might trade Griffin for Howard but not the Clippers. He’s done more for the franchise in 2 years then any other player in the team’s history. While I might not agree with the idea to not trade Griffin for anyone, I certainly don’t have a problem with it.
Beasel - January 18, 2012
Right on, Swami
boltsfan21 - January 18, 2012
if management wouldn't trade Griffin for Lebron
then we need new management, Lebron and maybe Durant however are the only ones i think we would have to do it.
XXDC2XX - January 18, 2012
Jerry West wouldn't - just saying
Jax - January 18, 2012
Are you kidding me, what Chris Paul injuries??
What did you just do a random search on google for Chris Paul injuries?? Chris Paul suffered a knee injury, he suffered a tear in his left meniscus, required surgery missed almost 40 games of the 2010 part of the 2009 and 2010 season… I mean i know im a Laker fan, but no reason to spit bullshit at me… a left meniscus tear is serious and even if surgically repaired in most cases the injury pops up again, why do you think so many Laker fans were mixed about the trade when it first got announced? Alot of people thought now we have two Bynums, i was not one of those people because i still think CP3 is worth any trade even if he carries with him an injury cloud… I mean he is your player, at least be aware of the injuries this guy carries before you call me misinformed…
As for Bynum and Howard, yeah i agree, Howard is worth more than Bynum, but that is mostly due to the Bynum injuries, yet Howard is NOT worth Bynum AND Pau… Also interesting with the Bynum injuries are that they were both caused by an external freak occurance, if you remember them the first was bynum landing on another players foot and the second was a player falling into his knee… Yet the injury problem still remains regardless of how they occured… Still Im in the camp of lets keep Bynum and trade Gasol for a good guard…
Also Griffin did not single-handidly change that perception, last season even with Blake Griffin i dont think anyone had a different perception of the Clippers, I know the majority of people i spoke to expected Griffin to leave when he had the chance (not saying this would happen, but that was the perception amongst the people i spoke to), the big change is CP3, this is the first season i can remember in a long time where I wouldnt say the Lakers are better than the Clippers and that is because CP3 is that good…
Funkensteinn - January 18, 2012
With all due respect
The fact that Lakerfan didn’t think that the team was changing last year really doesn’t hold much water here.
Jax - January 18, 2012
And really
The santimonious attitude of Lakerfan really is not welcome here. I should know. I grew up in LA as a Laker fan, enjoying the great 80s. However, after that I lost interest as the Kobe / Shaq teams were boring (nothing without Shaq), and the Kobe / Gasol teams were tainted from the Logo-induced gift. All the while most of us who are not myopic Lakerfan do not like Kobe’s attitude while we respect his game. The fact that Lakerfan’s hero is a rapist ballhog says it all.
Please note, things are changing. Luck is a combination of opportunity and preparedness. We put ourselves in a position to take advantage of the CP3 situation, and we’ve done so. The difference with Lakerfan is that Lakerfan expects the team to overspend and other players to gift themselves to the team. Is that going to continue to happen? Who knows, but to me at least the Clippers have put themselves into the mix. The Lakers are an aging team now, which is why Lakerfan has so much vitriol when it comes to the Clippers.
What is Lakerfan going to do if – gasp – they can’t get D-12 or get BG to walk over to their locker room? I think we know – most will become Clipperfan.
Jax - January 18, 2012
Seriously?
<The fact that Lakerfan’s hero is a rapist ballhog says it all.>
I mean are you really that immature and hostile?? I won’t put effort into a reply to a rubbish post…
Funkensteinn - January 18, 2012
What's inaccurate about that statement ?
Jax - January 18, 2012
Well, I think I know a little about Chris Paul's injury.
I wrote this. I only bring it up, because my response to your post wasn’t the product of a casual google search as you suggest. Yes, Chris Paul missed 40 odd games in 2010, after tearing his lateral meniscus (and having it removed). He wore a heavy brace through the rest of 2010 and most of 2011 because of it. His game has probably suffered… at least athletically.
Since then, he’s had no serious or lingering injuries and has missed very few games. But what you said is, “i already think the Clips gave off too much in the CP3 trade especially when we consider the injuries Paul has been fighting with lately in his career…” “Injuries”… (a plural word), and “lately” are the operative and objectionable words in this sentence. You made it sound as though Paul had a repetitive and lingering injury history… and he doesn’t. He was severely injured once.
Then you say, “…at least be aware of the injuries this guy carries before you call me misinformed…” I think I’ve illustrated how aware we Clipper fans are. Awareness is not a trait exclusive to Laker fans.
The only other statement I made was that Bynum regularly misses thirty to forty games a year… and yeah, I’ll cop to it, I DID look it up. And it’s absolutely true. He’s averaged over thirty minutes ONCE and he’s missed a heck of a lot of games! But here’s the ridiculous part, Funkenstein, I LIKE Andrew Bynum. He’s the best center in the Western Conference. And I think it would be ridiculous to trade he and Gasol for Dwight Howard, so there’s our common ground.
Regarding your last point, do you think Chris Paul comes to the Clippers if Blake Griffin’s not here?
Maybe you haven’t been paying attention, but for most of us (and I’m a twenty year Clipper fan), it’s Blake Griffin who defines this team. He’s the guy who has given us hope of finally changing the culture. It is other basketball fans, particularly Laker fans who “perceived” that Griffin would leave. Not me. Not us. We think Blake Griffin is freaking Moses.
I know I’m mixing metaphors but over here, this guy Griffin? HE WALKS ON WATER.
I’ve never seen him do it, but I’m sure he could.
John Raffo - January 18, 2012
Oh, and by the way, a meniscus tear isn't something that "pops up again".
Usual they cut away the damaged portion or sew up the tear. In Paul’s case they took it out. It’s gone. The meniscus doesn’t grow back or repair itself like other protective cartilage. But a lot of pro athletes have played a long time on similar injuries and after similar surgeries.
John Raffo - January 18, 2012
This john, is why I love you
rec’d rec’d rec’d
LJ Hann - January 18, 2012
Im an anatomy student i know a meniscus doesnt grow back
If you dont already know what a meniscus does then read up on it a little, the knee has very little bone stability, the meniscus is really all the stability there is aside from muscles, tendons and ligaments… Meniscus damage should not be taken lightly… Again im not saying Paul is going to suddenly collapse and i really hope there is no chance of him having to deal with it in his career as he is a fantastic player… BUT Paul will deal with it at some point in his life… The knee is the most complex joint in the body mainly due to the many angles it has to deal with, i think thats probably why im more paranoid about CP3 and Bynum, because of the whole anatomy thing, any injury is just magnified in my eyes like crazy, again im not being hostile or telling you I hope Paul collapses, but the fact you totally brushed off a meniscus injury in ur original comment, baffled me…
As for CP3, lets be honest, he doesn’t come to the Clippers if the Lakers trade doesnt get vetoed… Unlike most Laker Fans im not butt sore about it and im happy CP3 ended up at the Clippers, because i was sick of seeing him paired up with horrible players… Griffin and Deandre Jordan really bring out the best in CP3 from what Ive seen and i also think its about time the Clippers catch a break and do well…
And yes 100% it was other basketball fans that percieved Griffin leaving haha why should i lie it was mainly Boston/Laker and other fans… But Clipper fans have never suggested it…
Funkensteinn - January 18, 2012
What? No mention of how many championships the Lakers have
and how the Clippers will always suck?
You`re alright Mr. Funkensteinn. You`re alright…
Welcome! i`m looking forward to reading your future posts.
cliptakular - January 18, 2012
Haha nah you wont hear the banner talk from me
Im a basketball player myself so i don’t deal with the banner argument unless someone throws at me that the Lakers Franchise sucks… And the Clips have been on the end of some heavy badluck (though i think Portland must have performed every bad luck superstition with the way their young players turned out) yet i cant help but feel the Clipper management could have done better in the past… But yes the CP3 trade has made up for it and to be honest as a Laker fan even I’m excited about it, I think the Clippers are the better team especially this early on in the season and with the Lakers introducing a totally new offensive system with totally new lineups and of course, lest we forget CP3… Yet on paper logic dictates that by the end of the season when the offense of the Lakers kicks in (if it does) with their bigs they will be the better team… Personally I’m not too concerned which team is better this season as i don’t see a championship coming either of our teams ways barr some Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol-like trade going down… But Clips definitely are a good team and unless CP3 really starts suffering with injuries, they will get to the playoffs and be a tough team to put down…
Funkensteinn - January 18, 2012
Funkenstein, you're welcome here, but you're probably gonna take some lumps...
From this side of the room, the Laker’s problems are easy to dissect. They, like the Clippers, have a terrible bench. And their offense will kick in as soon as Kobe learns to throw the ball to his teammates.
It’s baffling, to me anyway, why the slickest post player in the business (Pau) and the second-best center in the business (Bynum) play without the ball for entire quarters.
John Raffo - January 18, 2012
All good if i cop some crap but
The Lakers problems are beyond a Kobe refusing to throw the ball to his teammates, though i feel that Kobe being more a part of the offense will definitely help speed up the answer to alot of our problems yet the primary Laker problem is the issue of having no point guard, though no point in getting into this…
As for Pau and Bynum, youre just sputtering off what the media says, watch more Laker games if you are interested in dissecting their problems and you’ll see that Bynums positioning throughout the games usually lacks any real purpose, Kobe does honour his post ups when they have purpose (though in the past week Kobe went hero mode sigh) Bynum takes too long to get into his post moves and cannot pass out of a double team, Gasol on the other hand is reinventing himself into a mid-range big and it is hurting the team, though softness is nothing new to see from Gasol, but this season really takes the cake in his inability in taking it to the rack… But Gasols defense is ten folds better this season under the Mike Brown system…
Funkensteinn - January 18, 2012
+1
Buddahfan - January 18, 2012
Perhaps
Bynum’s positoining lacks purpose because it serves no purpose. It sure seemed that way in the recent Clipper / Laker game. How is it possible that Kobe can’t see to feed Bynum and Gasol inside – boggles the mind.
Jax - January 18, 2012
this
Kobe passed to Pau in the Mavs game… Pau wasn’t expecting it, and him+bynum talked and shook their heads going the other way.
Is it Pau’s fault for not being ready, or Kobe’s for never passing when he is ready?
LJ Hann - January 18, 2012
A little bit of both
But that sounds like the Clippers game, not the Mavs, in the mavs game, Kobe honoured the post heaps from what i remember… Sorry if Ive mixed up the games… I tend to think that the Laker players really surrender alot of heart when Kobe tries to go all mamba… Yes Kobe is the catalyzer, yet they really just dont get into good positions, when they do, Kobe does hand it in to the post… But Kobe should facilitate more, the guy could average close to 10 assists if he took that mentality… And i think the team would benefit…
Funkensteinn - January 18, 2012
Mamba?
Don’t you just mean selfish ball hog?
Really not interested in talking about him. I’m sure there are those on the laker blog who want to.
Jax - January 18, 2012
Good on you *thumbs up*
Ill just talk to the folk here who actually can talk about basketball, good day
Funkensteinn - January 18, 2012
I had a detailed post above that
Made a number of valid points which you chose to ignore because you didnt like my description of Kobe. I was respondibg to you You should have thicker skin if you come on our board. Lots of folks here are not enamored with the guy and are Clipper fans in part because of him. You might not line it but that is reality. And as laker fans you clearly have to support the guy because he’s your team. That must be difficult for many, at least subconsciously.
Do you actually like Kobe? Does it matter to you what your star is like as a person?
And the other point I made about sanctimonious attitudes holds true as well. You. Lakerfan like Yankee fan takes success for granted. I will give you that part of that is due to competent management, but part is due to questionable tactics (Jerry influence in Memphis).it isn’t deniable.
The point is that things do change and you didn’t recognize that things were changing here last year. Yet you come on our board with the sanctimonious nonsense that your friends all think Blake is leaving etc. that kind of cocky cluelessness is annoying to many of us.
I’m taking the opportunity to see if you want to dig down behind the veneer. Apparently not.
Jax - January 19, 2012
You did not have a detailed post at all
You had a basic generalization of Laker Fans spewed all through out, i had not mentioned Kobe as a human being and nor do i care to mention it, it does not concern me and it should not concern you or anyone… Jordan is called the G.O.A.T not for his character which people debate is worse than Kobe’s, i mean the guy hit his teammates and had gambling problems, yet why bring it up if we are talking basketball??? You don’t find yourself slightly immature mentioning a court case that found Kobe did infact not rape the woman, then saying he is a rapist? Kobe cheats/ed on his wife and that is his business and his ex-wifes business, im not going to judge a guy on the basketball court due to his off-court issues…
I like Kobes fire and competitiveness as it shows on the court, do i care who he is as a person?? hell no, this isnt a guy im introducing into my living room to my family, this is a guy playing for the Lakers and my only concern is his on court play… My role models are not on the Lakers, they are historical figures whether they be scholars or artists…
Most casual Laker fans do take success for granted, but all you have to do is hop on SSR and read some of the comments from folks there and you’ll realize you’re generalization is wrong… Success is EXPECTED, because we like to win, you want a successfull team you have to expect success…
And i never said blake is leaving… I said before CP3 came along, so many of the people i spoke to (not friends, in this day and age we have blogs and sites) thought Griffin would leave, because although he was a bright spot on the clips, the Clipper organization was notorious for having bad roster management… That is not cocky cluelessness, that is a judgement made on the actions and badluck that previous Clipper rosters have had…
And you are not taking any opportunity to dig down behind the veneer… Youre just making useless generalizations on an individual who did not approach this site sputtering generalizations at you… I came here to talk about the Clippers and basketball in general with Clipper fans… I like to see how the thinking differs between fan bases… I did not come here cocky nor did i belittle what the Clippers i doing, i even mentioned that the Clippers could very well be better than the Lakers… So stop spitting generalizations my way and covering them up with the excuse that it is you ‘digging down behind the veneer’…
Funkensteinn - January 19, 2012
You've misinterpreted my posts
I’m not “spitting” generalizations, I’m just asking questions. You’re hear, you’re a Laker fan, so I’m asking you. Please don’t confuse your unwillingness to answer candidly with a generalization. You are not required by law to answer the questions, but you came here, so I thought I’d ask. Particularly since you profess to be more open minded than many Lakerfans.
The questions I ask are difficult and will make you dig deeper into the reasons why you are Lakerfan than those on your own board. The Clipper fans have their own issues, but that’s not the purpose of this post.
I don’t believe that any court determined that Kobe wasn’t a rapist, although if I were you I’d hold onto that incorrect notion if you were going to root for the guy as the central figure on your team. Putting aside the fact that he needlessly and selfishly ratted out Shaq, based on the facts disclosed it appears that Kobe may very well have raped the woman, i.e., had sexual relations with her against her will, and paid her off so that she wouldn’t testify against him (a daunting prospect indeed for any woman, much less a woman whose past would be raked over in this case if she testified). None of us would be able to walk from charges such as those, but I digress.
And the “role model” argument you raise is just a straw man. Kobe is the Lakers and you know it. You should be honest about it. To root for the Lakers is to root for Kobe. I personally wouldn’t want to do that, no matter how many championships he brings.
Your argument is essentially that it doesn’t matter who Kobe is as a person, you’ll root for him on the court. Really Lakerfan? What if Kobe were a triple ax murderer? Of course you wouldn’t then. So where do you draw the line? If you’re wrong and the court did not determine that he didn’t rape the girl, and thus that he could very well have done so (why buy her off at all if you’ve done nothing?), would that change things in your mind? Do you even care about the girl or what happened to her?
People on this site generally do not like the Lakers and do not like Kobe, as I’ve said. I personally would find it very difficult to root for a guy like Kobe given his background, the way he treats his fellow players, and the way he plays the game generally so selfishly. Sure, he’s good, but there’s more to life than that for many of us at least.
With respect to Clipper management, you might not know this but they have a new GM who has acted very differently than the prior regime. Apparently you don’t know anything about this, which is not surprising since you seem to be a myopic Lakerfan rehashing statements told to you by other myopic Lakerfans.
Finally, just exactly how old are you? Because I was a Lakerfan for many many years. Probably before you were, Funkenstein. I think I’ve earned the right to ask these questoins.
Jax - January 19, 2012
Another silly post
The court did not find Kobe guilty of rape, you want to discuss the integrity of the court? By all means go for it, but i wont debate that as i have no knowledge of that integrity that you are questioning and this is a basketball thread…
Kobe is the Lakers now, but i was a Laker fan through the Jordan days as a 6 year old after watching Magic Johnson and Laker documentaries… Also Im not sure why you are so pumped on proving Kobe is a rapist when i did not come here praising and glorifying Kobe, but since you seem to be the only clipper fan here hammering me for no reason about Kobe ill reply to your statements…
As for Kobe being a rapist, you obviously didnt follow the case, the woman had the sperm of another man in her underwear and the pubic hair of another that clearly showed she had a sexual relation immediately after Kobe, you want to again take on the justice system go ahead…
Then you have the woman as she was leaving the hotel, you dont find it funny that the only person to say anything looked odd about her was a friend, all the hotel personnel said she left in good spirits… You want to fight the evidence put forth, again go ahead…
Then you have the amount of lies this woman put forth which she publicly appologized for that really hurt her story as a whole and ontop of that, the woman had psychological problems and was being medicated for schizophrenia, wait you dont remember any of this right? Justice system all wrong right…
I personally dont think Kobe raped her, there is too much evidence to the contrary, while the only evidence you seem to give is that… well you dont give any… The fact that this case was settled out of court doesnt mean anything when put infront of the huge amount of evidence that this woman suffered mental problems and ontop of that had sexual relations directly after the alleged rape…
As for ratting out shaq, clearly thats all you remember, you don’t remember the fact that shaq ratted Kobe out to his wife as well… Again im not siding with Kobe, im just saying that there are two sides to the story and you seem to be only willing to show one side even when you’re parading your bullshit open mindedness… In this case i see immaturity from both and think both players just needed to put the ego aside… But hey it didnt come out that bad, Kobe has two championships to show for after that relationship…
By all means ask questions, but you seem to be having a hard time differentiating between the fact that i root for this guy on the basketball court and the fact that if any basketball player was my role model it would be between magic johnson and Larry Bird… Again my role models are not on a basketball court, they are philosophers and artists…
As for being more open minded than other Laker Fans, id like you to quote me for when i even said that, I havent once mentioned that, i simply wanted to talk to another fan base and i chose the Clippers, all you have to do is hop on SSR and see how many open minded Laker fans there are…
Im a Laker fan, not a Kobe fan… And if you want to go more than that, I am a basketball fan and not a Laker fan, i loved basketball before i knew the Lakers… I picked up a ball at 4 years old and supported the Lakers when i was 6… Which is why I’m not around here saying shit against the Clippers, i like when teams play good basketball…
And my age is 21, I have supported the Lakers in detail for 15 going on 16 years and i can even tell you their starting lineup in the 90’s when i first supported them… As for the Clipper organization, yes you are clearly correct that i dont know much about their GM and whether they have a new one… Which is why again, i say i came here to learn about you guys and i havent sputtered off one bit of crap about the Clippers even though you seem hell bent on giving me crap for no reason…
Finally yes you have the right to ask these questions, but ask them to yourself, i dont see Kobe as a rapist and obviously neither did the Justice system… If he was proven to be a rapist then obviously he wouldnt be in the NBA dont you think? Just like if he was a triple axe murderer…
Funkensteinn - January 19, 2012
let's get Dwight Howard!!!!!!!!
DonaldSterlingSucks - January 18, 2012
I missed most of the game due to work, caught some of the 4th quarter...WTF was that.
No wonder Leslie, Thompkins, and Jones can’t get off the bench. Wow, Cookie is guaranteed to play again when he’s healthy. We really need to address that bench issue. I guess this was the throw away game of the back to back to back. This should be our worse game of the season.
tenkaistar - January 18, 2012
Exactly
I’m hoping this quiets some of the “we want [insert name of 2nd-rounder here]” BS. The reason Travis Leslie isn’t playing? He sucks. The reason Trey Thompkins isn’t playing? He’s Cookie w/o the benefit of experience. Both have some raw materials and may some day improve enough to be rotation players, but neither one is any sort of answer to our current bench woes.
boltsfan21 - January 18, 2012
The Roster
The Clippers currently have 15 players. To me, 5 of them are not NBA players at this time (Leslie, Thompkins, Cook, Jones, Fortson) 2 of them (Foye and Gomes) are questionable bottom of the rotation players and 1 (Bledsoe) is hurt and and may have is own issues (can’t shoot, too many turnovers). Thats an extremely short bench. There has to be some veteran players floating around that can provide something. Get rid of Jones, Leslie, and Fortson. Bring in 3 guys that have some legitimate NBA experience. Hell, what about Gilbert Arenas?? Sure he’s a head case but at least he’s had some success in the NBA. Can he be any worse then Foye? I’d certainly feel more confident with him out there then Leslie or Fortson.
Beasel - January 18, 2012
Hopefully CP3 and Billups Stay
If they do I am sure they will be the ears of NO and VDN on additions and subtractions to next season’s roster and beyond.
Buddahfan - January 18, 2012
this was a give away game
We knew our depth was weak going in so we had no shot. I have to admit Trey is not ready yet and it hurts because Cook is a non factor as well we need one more big Oshley get it done.
KillaClip - January 18, 2012 via mobile
Last Night This Is What We Saw From The Clippers
Therefore they played like this
Buddahfan - January 18, 2012
That's Brutal
Sorry you’ve had to write two of these in a row Johnny, wouldn’t wish this on anyone.
Didn’t really think we had much chance in this game, but didn’t expect a beat down either…tonight should be interesting, or not.
ghost_ride - January 18, 2012
Yeah, JohnnyOC's drawn two terrible games.
I didn’t make it through this one.
John Raffo - January 18, 2012
I watched the whole thing
I wanted to see how Leslie, Thompkins and Fortson looked plus what Jones had to offer. I shoulda done something else.
Beasel - January 18, 2012
LOL
Buddahfan - January 18, 2012
Not making excuses however if JohnnyOC has drawn two terrible games as stated then maybe just maybe JohnnyOC is part of the problem. Just saying.
wilriv21 - January 18, 2012
that was definitely a hard one to sit through.
johnnyoc21 - January 18, 2012
Totally agree with your take on Fortson
I think he’ll make somebody a serviceable backup PG some day. He’s quick enough to get into the paint, and he has MAD HOPS. He was actually getting up high enough to take boards away from the forwards. And his mid-range J doesn’t look horrible either.
boltsfan21 - January 18, 2012
When the second unit it out there, Fortson should be encouraged to shoot when he’s open.
tenkaistar - January 18, 2012
I think he got that message
Passed up all of them the first time out against Jersey, but started taking the open looks last night.
boltsfan21 - January 18, 2012
Rasta is fun to watch
The guy hustles, hops, smiles and hits the occasional jumper
wilriv21 - January 18, 2012
he's our muggsy bogues, our spud webb
unfortunately we have eric bledsoe for that role and he’s a better player (bledsoe that is)
chrisd - January 18, 2012
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