Clips Nation

No, it doesn't sum it up, because...

A mid-season trade of Howard to the Lakers (for Andrew Bynum) could make all the Nets, Clippers and Mavericks possibilities moot, but the Magic are not as enamored of Bynum as many would be led to believe, and 85-year-old owner Rich DeVos might not sign off on a Bynum-Howard deal if he felt it hindered the chances of the Magic competing for a championship this season.

It sounds like the Bynum obsession is a product of the Laker-humping media, not anything from the actual team itself.

That quote's directly from the Sheridan article BTW.

enamored?

Just because the Magic aren’t totally enamored of Bynum, doesn’t mean they like DeAndre Jordan better. Bynum may not be enough to get Howard – but are you seriously arguing that he’s not better than Jordan?

I think he means Bynum may not be enough for a MID-SEASON deal.

Especially if ORL keeps up it’s 9-3 pace.

If Dwight hits the offseason in a Magic uniform, he truly holds all the cards.

I'm not saying DJ is better than Bynum...

because he isn’t.

But maybe the Magic would seriously consider a package built around DJ and Eric Bledsoe, with some complimentary pieces. Regardless of the rhetoric about making one last run and whatnot, it couldn’t be any clearer that Dwight isn’t coming back. Getting several young players with high ceilings (like DJ and EBled) and tanking is FAR more beneficial in the long run than getting a guy like Bynum and losing in the second round every year.

no

no, they wouldn’t.

+1

+30 million

or whatever DJ has left on his contract.

DJ isn't a young player on a rookie deal

his contract is tricky business for a rebuilding team, which is a risk. Bynum has a team option for next year so even if Bynum shouldn’t work out they could shed him quickly.

To further drive the point home

DJ’s game is also not the general fan would understand. For 10+ mil a year people expect big scorers. DJ will likely never develop much of a offensive game (aside from being setup by teammates for alley oops or hustle points near the basket). But he’s perfectly fine on the Clips doing the dirty work behind the far more showy CP3 and Blake Griffin.

Do Tyson Chandler or Ben Wallace even have post moves?

Champions, both of em. This is DJ’s ceiling, which is much different than Bynum’s. In some ways, DJ could eventually be more conducive to winning than Bynum, but I think it depends on the team make-up.

Exactly

DJ can be a great C just not in the Shaq/Hakeem/Robinson mold. It’s just not as obvious if you aren’t scoring 20ppg.

no question there

but he isn’t a player you build a team around. Bynum is.

if i were a Magic fan

I would rather make one last run with Dwight and try in the offseason to resign him than trade him for DJ and Bledsoe, hell even if i knew he wasn’t coming back i will play the season before settling for DJ and Bledsoe.

And it is not the first time we hear the Orlando Magic

folks are not too high on a trade involving Bynum, given his health and attitude.

And if they're concerned about Bynum's health...

it’s not a stretch to suggest they’re probably worried about Lopez’s health too.

simple negotiating tactic...

Deemed worthy by Lebron? Sorry but when did that happen?

Last Summer

When he allowed us to interview him

vaughtfromhisspot - January 17, 2012 via mobile reply

Interesting. That was more like a circus. But I digress.

If Dwight made it clear he wanted LAC...

We can trade Mo to the Lakers for their TPE. Not that I’d want to help the Lakers, and I’m 99% sure the Lakers wouldn’t help us land Howard.

But say they/we do.

Foye expires and we can Amnesty Gomes. By my math that frees up 16m dollars.

Then seeing Dwight will sign for nothing, ORL may be open to a S&T for DJ.

Both CLE and TOR had to settle for only Second Round Picks.

Then sign Ray Allen and Chauncey Billups for the Vet’s Min.

Math

That’s not $16M. It’s $16M that is gone, but you have to get $16M UNDER the cap (or really, more than that, but whatever) and the Clippers are starting over the cap. Your scenario gets the Clippers (considering roster holds and assuming a $57M cap) to maybe $8M. Pretty sure Dwight is gonna want more than that.

Fair enough.

I haven’t brushed up on our cap numbers since the team was restructured. However, if those moves put us at 8m under the cap, then what is stopping the last half of my scenario?

A S&T for DJ.

ORL has the room to sign Dwight, if we trade DJ to them, that’s about 19m in cap space to absorb Dwight’s deal.

And once again, this is all contingent on Dwight making it clear LAC is his first choice. Even then it’s dicey.

Pincus also seems to think DJ may be a Base Year Compensation player, but I thought that was done away with in the new CBA.

Caron is the only salary left to dump

and gets you to your $16M. Bled doesn’t make enough.

He’s saying you don’t have to dump more salary. Deandre leaving on the S & T is the remaining dump.

This.

why would they want Jordan?

I like Jordan, but he is a good roleplayer at best. Bynum would make a ton more sense, even with the injury risks.

I think Orlando would be out of their minds to take a package of Jordan/Bledsoe over Bynum.

It would indeed be mind-bottling

I only read the first sentance of every post. Missed the rest about S&T.

You guys are getting confused. This is assuming that Dwight chooses us in free agency. Orlando has no say in the matter. If they don’t want DeAndre then we give him to GS (who is paying Kwame 8 mill this’s year) or some other team. Not hard at all to find a home for young shotblocking center.

The whole thing comes down to is we put together the best team and the best run we can this year to entice him to choose us in the offseason. Sounds like there is a chance!

Sfernald - January 17, 2012 reply

Exactly.

The Magic would be stupid to pick Jordan/Bledsoe over Bynum (frankly, I don’t get why they don’t like Bynum. Howard’s career numbers are 18 and 12. Bynum right now is avging something like 16 and 13.8)

But again, this scenario occurs if Dwight says Clippers or bust. If he’s not willing to sign/extend with LAL, it doesn’t matter if ORL wants Bynum or not. They can’t get him.

here's what I don't get

Why are we discussing a scenario in which Dwight says the Clippers are the only team he’ll play for? Why does anyone feel that is a reasonable precondidtion for this discussion?

Blake Griffin and Chris Paul.

And the fact that he has a front row seat to what’s happening in MIA.

blind fan goggles

it’s a POSSIBLE destination. not DEFINITE. just fans drooling over what looks good on paper… even if such a move was possible, our bench would be crap.

zac4president - January 17, 2012 reply

The only teams that can sign Dwight in FA...

are Brooklyn and Dallas. Period.

Wrong. Lots of teams could clear space by having a giveaway if he choose them. Not the lakers or the heat though, but a lot of teams like the Clippers or Okc or the Bulls. Other teams would be lining up to take their space-clearing throwaways.

The key is he has to make his decision known to them, then the team makes it happen.

Sfernald - January 17, 2012 reply

I say screw DH and get in on players that are being cleared to make space :)

shay - January 17, 2012 reply

Van Pelt this morning

Thinks we should trade Blake AND DJ for Dwight. Excuse me? You think we are going to trade a promising young frontcourt duo who average a combined 30pts/19rbs/3blks for a guy averaging 19/14/2? No freaking way.

The Clippers have a fantastic roadmap right now with CP and Blake as its only ‘max’ star players, giving them the flexibility to sign great role players like DJ and Caron, and with the excitement, winning record, being in LA, and having one of the best passing/closing PGs in the game we can attract skilled vets for min deals. Stay the course Olshey.

cassellmania - January 17, 2012 reply

Rec

No freaking way do you trade Blake for Howard.

yaggiefresh - January 17, 2012 reply

In you get Howard to commit you do this in a heartbeat. Top 2 PG and Top C is a championship run every season.

Blake can't go anywhere anytime

He is the center of this franchise. CP3 may be the best player we have now, but NONE of any of this would be possible without Blake. God willing, he’s in a Clipper jersey his entire career.

SNAPP3R - January 17, 2012 reply

right on snap! I wouldn't trade blake griffin for any player in the league! period!

ThaFoX - January 17, 2012 via Android app reply

screw van pelt where not trading Blake!

unless somehow we get
steve blake and then yeah we can trade him!

ThaFoX - January 17, 2012 via Android app reply

While Mo may not be a significant upgrade over Nelson, either he, or Nelson, or both, become tradable pieces for Orlando, allowing them to pick up other pieces elsewhere that they could surround DJ and Bledsoe with.

SNAPP3R - January 17, 2012 reply

So it’d be something like DeAndre, Mo, Bledsoe, Foye (expiring), and picks for Dwight? Yeah, there’s no way Orlando does that. Lol.

FlyByKnight - January 17, 2012 reply

of course Dwight would listen when the Clips come calling

he is willing to consider New jersey just because D-Will is there.

But I don’t think we have to pieces to make this happen.

my only hope at this point regarding howard is that he stays in orlando

nauticazn25 - January 17, 2012 reply

their team is playing well...

what i mean is....keep him out east...not in our backyard

orlando and miami can duel it out in the east, if he comes out here in the west, he makes our chances much worse of going to the finals

nauticazn25 - January 17, 2012 reply

New scenario just for fun:

New Jersey and New York supposedly really hate each other now, but aside from that.

NJN trade D-Will to NYK for Amar’e (who has been offered already to both NOH for Paul and ORL for Dwight).

Knicks gets the PG they need and can properly run their offense through Melo with Ty Chandler locking down the middle.

Dwight and Amar’e are a GREAT fit together as Amar’e as the jumper that will allow their games to mesh. Amar’e goes back to scoring 23+, Dwight locks down the middle, and the now BROOKLYN Nets can sign New York resident Steve Nash to the MLE next season.

It’s a win-win for both teams and keeps Dwight out of the WC.

This plan makes too much sense.

The Knicks could then sign Kenyon Martin for peanuts to be their starting PF.

NYK:
D-Will
Fields
Chandler
K-Mart
Melo

NJN (next year):
Nash
MarShon
Dwight
Amar’e
Kirilenko (on a deal similar to Caron’s)

As Michael Scott would say, it’s a win, win…win.

And finally.

Truly fiery rivalries between the Knicks and Nets and Lakers and Clippers will do wonders for the League ratings wise.

not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet...but getting Dwight with CP3/Butler would be the ultimate...

JUMBACO!!!

Chicago Bulls

the Windy City makes the most sense to me. Top PG paired with the Top C would be a beast in the east.

this

if the clips can get in, Bulls could certainly be a destination

why would blake be untouchable?

Lets be real here. Blake plays above the rim… way above the rim…. but how long will that really last? He has a jump shot now… cool… but he still is lacking a lot if basic basketball know-how. We said before during the CP3 thing if you have the chance to grab a superstar you take it. So lets tale it.

cantthinkofagoodname - January 17, 2012 via mobile reply

Ding Ding Ding

You sir are GM of the day.
Front of the line.
VIP pass
We have a winner.

"but he still is lacking a lot if basic basketball know-how"

You obviously only watch Sports Center then. Dude is close to averaging 5 APG for his career. The only thing missing from his game is a reliable jump shot and free throw shooting. BOTH of which he will eventually develop.

Also:

“Lets be real here. Blake plays above the rim… way above the rim…. but how long will that really last?”

Don’t you realize you’re describing Dwight Howard? Who is FOUR years OLDER than Blake?

In your own words, “how long will that really last?”

um i watch just about every game and im usually in the game threads

But blake has a lot to improve on still. He wont be able to overpower his opponents forever. Plus jumping so high has me worried every time he comes down. Ya dwight is similar, but he is a PROVEN RELIABLE SUPERSTAR!

cantthinkofagoodname - January 17, 2012 via mobile reply

Yes

Skills vs physical ability. Blake is a top player right now, but it’s got a lot to do with his physical abilities perhaps more than any learned and practiced basketball skills. This is like my argument for LeBron. No doubt that learning to use one’s athleticism correctly is something that must be learned and practiced, but that’s not a very reliable long-term goal. I think that if Blake is willing to put in the time to improve his game to the point where he is using his footwork to score more than his athleticism (for example), his time as a top PF will last longer.

"How long will it last"

He is sooo young. It shouldn’t even be a concern now. And it’s not like Dwight brings alot to the table below the rim…

Agreed

But my premise was that the Clippers become less attractive to Dwight, and fall off the list, if BG is gone.

Yes, you probably trade Griffin for Howard straight up if you can. But can you?

Griffin is more desirable than Bynum, forsure

But I am going to say that I would not trade blake. In my mind, he is who this franchise is built around. He is the cornerstone, and he is untouchable. I believe that he will be loyal to the franchise, and I would like to see the franchise return that loyalty. Too often we have seen players not want to be on the Clippers. He is our star, he made us relevant, and there is no player I would trade him for. Not basketball reasons, but sentimental. Olshey wants high character, loyal players? To get players to trust you, you have to be loyal to them. Blake’s name should never even be discussed in trade talks.

screwing EJ and Griffin

I am not sure if i could take it, i am not even sure if i could stand screwing DJ. We are Clipper fans, we have a soul, i just couldn’t watch Blake in another uniform.

please!

he is going to learn to play below the rim look at Kobe, you learn to play below the rim it can happen, and is happening, of course he has of learning curve that I’m willing to wait 4!

ThaFoX - January 17, 2012 via Android app reply

what I'm saying about kbryant is all he did was play above the rim in his early days now he has gotten smarter and wiser.

rarely tries to play above the rim anymore, with that said he made some plays the other night that I haven’t seen in a while from him.

ThaFoX - January 17, 2012 via Android app reply

If the Clippers were the ONLY team on Howard’s list (as when Carmelo Anthony forced his way to New York) then Orlando might have no choice but to accept whatever they could get from the LAC.

Sort of like Denver had no choice but to accept what they could get from NY?

We wait until next year, because i think Howard wants to try one more time!

I think Mo will not excercise is option and Foye, Cook come off and Amnesty Gomes,
then we have money to sign him but the problem we will have two centers at 28mil.
The problem is we won’t have much of a bench and hope Bledsoe, Leslie and Trey
developed and with the new 2nd rookies coming in we do ok.

ENCUEROMAN - January 17, 2012 reply

Sign and trade

I agree with most of your analysis, Steve, but this seems like the one big thing you left out. IF Howard hits free agency, and IF Howard decides that LAC is where he wants to be, then our cap space really wouldn’t be the issue because we could do a sign-and-trade with Orlando. Though they might not be thrilled, I’m sure they’d rather have DJ and Bledsoe than let Dwight leave for nothing. Not saying it’s likely, but it’s not impossible either.

Well

I’m not sure how we went from “Clippers are on the list” to “Clippers are the only name on the list.” Your just making stuff up now. Maybe Dwight wants to play for the Clippers so badly that he’ll sign for the minimum. Do I have any reason to believe that it is true? No, but maybe it is. That would work.

Agreed - what I don't get is

why Dwight is adding the Clips at all since there are clearly several other teams out there on his list who can offer a more attractive package.

C'mon, Steve

What exactly am I making up here? All I said was that you left out the possibility of a sign-and-trade. Are you suggesting that, if he hits free agency and gets to pick his destination, he absolutely won’t pick the Clippers?

This isn’t the same thing as saying that he’ll force a trade to LAC before his current deal is up. My only point was, unlike what you said in your piece, if he does want to come as a free agent, there’s no reason we couldn’t make a max offer because of the sign-and-trade rule.

Exactly right.

I don’t get why Steve is being do draconian in his responses on this issue…

I'm missing something

There is free agency, and then there are trades. My premise is simple. As regards trades, Bynum trumps any Clippers offer. As regards free agency, Clippers would have to jump through a ton of hoops.

How is “sign and trade” different than “trade”? Are the Lakers somehow not allowed to participate in the sign and trade scenario?

To me what you are making up (and this is a direct quote from your comment above) is “IF Howard decides that LAC is where he wants to be.” I don’t see how the Clippers’ S&T offer trumps a Bynum trade assuming Dwight is willing to accept a trade to the Lakers, which as far as anyone as indicated to date he certainly would (in fact, in general it has been presented as his first choice).

I don't advocate any of this talk, but hopefully I can clear this up

1. Orlando is doing well
2. They decide to keep Dwight and hope they will win enough that he will resign
3. Dwight leaves in free agency
4. He chooses the Clippers.

In this scenario, the Clippers now S&T for Dwight. Orlando can’t give him to LAL for Bynum, because it is a S&T to the Clippers. Again, not my thinking, but seems to be an idea around here

Yup, that's it exactly

Nobody is claiming it’s likely, only that it becomes a possibility if Dwight does in fact hit free agency.

Yes yes and yes.

"How is 'sign and trade' different than 'trade'?"

How it’s different is that the player in question is an unrestricted free agent, and thus the team has no leverage and no right to trade him to a destination other than his preferred one. But I assume you already know this, so the sticking point seems to be the idea that Dwight would choose the Clippers over the Lakers. And none of us is implying that this is certain or even likely. All we are saying is that, were he to ultimately become a free agent, and were he then to decide that he’d rather play with CP3 and Blake than Kobe and Pau, the salary cap wouldn’t stand in the way of it happening.

This is under the premise that Dwight wants ONLY to play with the Clips

This seems almost too unlikely to be discussing this much…

Unlikely that, when he hits free agency, he decides the Clips w/ CP3 and Blake are his #1 choice?

That is “too unlikely to be discussed”?

Given that the Clips won't have the outright cap space

We might as well be comparing CP3 and Blake to Dwyane Wade and LeBron James. If he outright chooses Miami and says that he won’t go anywhere else, he can just as easily “force” Orlando to take on Bosh and pieces. If we’re opening the Clipper door, we open all the doors.

Since Orlando probably wouldn’t want Bosh and pieces, they’d say no to that deal and Dwight would have to walk and find a team with the adequate cap space that he likes. But then Miami could find a team that would take Bosh (not that hard) and suddenly they have space. Or Dallas welcomes him with open arms along with Deron Williams.

Or maybe Orlando says they won’t S&T to Miami or the Clippers, but that the Lakers are willing to S&T for Bynum if Dwight only commits for 2 years. Dwight, realizing his options are thin and that the Lakers are still one of his top choices, accepts this deal.

So it’s not that the Clippers being the #1 choice is so unlikely, it’s that the entire process of Dwight Howard ending up on the Clips is so unlikely, even if they were his #1 choice. There are so many other options that are more attractive to both Orlando and still relatively attractive to Dwight, the Clips would not only have to be his #1 choice, but his exclusive “I’ll only go there” choice like NY was to Melo.

this

(just wanted to not conform to the +1 trend)

+1

Suck on that, LJ!

nooo

Hmm you drive a hard bargain.

If I weren't trapped at the bottom

of PV Mike’s well in Poetland… I’d be coming for you!!

chargerclipperfan - January 17, 2012 reply

at least there isn't some stupid catch phrase for his situation

the phase “melo-drama” was making me angry by january last season.

osamu - January 17, 2012 reply

We have the best trade asset any NBA team could want

The JUMBACO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we wouldn't trade that be serious

Howard also has warts to his game.

Yesterday’s stats against the Knicks
28 minutes 8 points, (2-9 free throws)
6 turnovers
6 fouls
I am not a Bynum fan at all but he has a more polished offensive game than Howard if Kobe passed him the ball.

PV Mike - January 17, 2012 reply

I think he has more moves

But his passes out of the post are super lame. His footwork is better than Dwight’s for sure, but Dwight makes the entire defense collapse on him, while Bynum just usually attracts a single help defender.

Also

I don’t think Dwight’s dumb enough to try and dribble when Chris Paul is nearby (like Bynum did against us, muahaha)

offense vs. defense

I agree that Drew’s offensive game is better than Dwight’s. But Dwight is light years ahead of any center defensively.

Am I the only reading the tea leaves with this interpretation?

Dwight’s agent floated this out there to get the Lakers to cave in on including Pau Gasol (or at least as part of a three-way deal). With NJ now undesirable due to the Lopez injury, his agent needs to create some leverage on the Magic’s behalf…easiest way is to mention the co-tenant Clippers who have already done much damage to the Lakers fanbase pysche over the last few weeks.

Big, fat honking tea leaves

Seems like a pretty obvious ploy to me. Either that, or to drum up traffic for Clipsnation.

seems reasonable

lots of people involved with lots of motives. But yeah, if LAL is where he really wants to go, creating a Clippers scenario might be a ploy to get LAL to sweeten their offer. Esp. given free agency is a non starter for the Lakers.

makes sense

People seem to not realize a couple of things

Dwight’s numbers offensively are being paralyzed by the fact he has poor guards.

IMO I’d do Dwight for Blake in a straight up deal.

Remember, do not get caught up in what Blake can turn into. This team is strictly win now.

well I'm guessing

Blake Griffin is a big reason for DH to come here

Blake and CP3

assuming the Magic GM (Otis Smith?)

is not an idiot (he hasn’t traded Dwight for under value yet)

I would think, Blake must be in a deal.

Sure Dwight says he wants to play alongside Blake, but he (Smith) has to know trading Dwight to the Clippers and not somehow getting Blake back would get him fired.

But the two may be mutually exclusive

I’m assuming
(a) Clippers won’t do deal without an extension
(b) Magic won’t do deal without Griffin
© Howard won’t agree to an extension without Griffin as teammate.

ergo no deal. QED.

we all don't know anything

but this is what we do know:

1. Dwight wants a bigger market – check
2. Dwight has a list of teams he would play for, which means teams he would sign an extension with – check
3. Dwight wants to play with at least one elite player (Nets only have one elite player) – check
4. Dwight said he is intrigued by the Clippers (really I don’t know what he means by intrigued)
5. Smith has been steadfast in getting the best value for Dwight (Blake might be the best value, who knows what other deals are out there)

So, I would think that there is a better chance Dwight comes to the Clippers sans Blake.

better chance?

Not sure what you mean by better chance. Surely you don’t mean “better than without Blake.” I’ll assume you mean “better than zero.” Ok.

yes

because zero chance would be a trade not involving blake

I think Howard

would agree to come even without BG because he’d still have DJ and CP3 around.

I wouldn’t do DJ and Blake for Howard though.

I don't get the appeal to Dwight to play alongside DJ.

We’d have 2 PG, 2 C and an SF hahaha.

I can't believe Neil would trade Blake when even the slimmest chance of acquiring Dwight as a FA exists.

That includes the S&T option this offseason.

I agree

He would play with Deron… and no one else

LA is a big market and has much nicer weather

Dwight has been a warm weather guy all his life (GA native IIRC)

I think Dwight would extend without Blake

we have CP3!

i can not believe scott van pelt show

He was saying hed trade bg & dj for d12 100% lol

balla131 - January 17, 2012 via mobile reply

Although i'm totally on board with CP3

now that some time has passed and the team is doing well, I just cant get around the feeling that trading away BG would be a mistake at this time. There’s just something exciting about a young over achieving team breaking out into the big time. Adding DH and giving up more young assets takes something away from the Clipper appeal and just smacks of something our other tenants have done. Continue with BG and DJ and give the young guys more time together on the floor. Their exuberance and excitement really fire the fans up more so than a team of purchased superstars.

rouse77 - January 17, 2012 reply

svp tweeted me back

Saying dwights 26 dpoy u guys are crazy lol

balla131 - January 17, 2012 via mobile reply

And the terrible comment of the day (by someone who thinks he is smart):

A lot of these so-called reports are just stupid… If i am the Magic and I am trading Howard to the Clippers. You better believe i am getting Blake Griffin and draft picks in return so that idea of a CP3, Griffin, Howard team is just absurd. Also, the Lakers would have to be really out of their minds to give up 2 7-footers for a not even 7-footer even though he is a beast. Last time i checked their execs were pretty smart.

lol, if he is the Magic, they must feel extremely entitled.

SurfinQ00 - January 17, 2012 reply

Who the heck posted that? A Laker fan in disguise-- I bet

Any chance of adding 2 superstars via trade

ended with the Baron trade. Clips don’t have enough remaining assets to make a trade of this magnitude without including Griffin or Paul.

Hypothetical, if the Magic call and say Blake Griffin, Mo Williams and DeAndre Jordan for Dwight Howard (who has agreed to an extension), Ryan Anderson and JJ Reddick do the Clippers say yes?

No

They say “HELL YES!!!”

before CP3 no

now with CP3 I agree with wilriv21

Let's simplify it

Mo Williams and Blake Griffin for Howard (who has agreed to an extension). Putting emotional attachment aside I think you have to say yes.

CP3 + Griffin = Playoffs

CP3 + Howard = Championship Contender.

And for each season to come

I get where all you guys are coming from.

But to suggest that the current Clippers with CP3 and Blake are not championship contenders is wrong.

absolutely

the Clips can sit tight and try to figure out ways to solidify the porous bench.

But I don’t see how one can look at it and not say Dwight Howard is better than Blake Griffin. Clips go from contenders to favorites. Right now they are clearly behind the Heat and Thunder then its a logjam of like 5-6 teams that are a piece or two away.

Do you think that BG will never surpass D-12?

offensively he can

not defensively though. Unfortunately no matter how hard Blake works he can’t grow his arms a foot longer.

True but you have DJ for shotblocking

btw I'm not against the trade just thinking things through

You can never have enough shot blocking

and what team can even score in the paint on these twin towers? The help defense would be ridiculous. Butler and CP3 are already plus defenders. Even Billups can just stick his guys on the perimeter and not worried about being beat off the dribble with those 2 guys behind him.

Defensively we'd be better, no question

I guess I’m just wondering about the tradeoff. Which is better?

Would it really be D12 and DJ down low?

I was thinking if we get D12, DJ is either the highest paid bench player in the league (guessing on that) or we flip DJ for a PF.

Exactly, DJ is as good as gone in any scenario.

We play DJ at PF

he’s played a lot of PF already in his career. Remember we had ZBo, Kaman, Camby and DJ all at once. He also played with Kaman last year quite a bit.

This is true

DJ isn’t bad on guards.. long arms = lots of blocked jumpers.

That was my thought. It’s just a height thing.

I agree and I think that BG may be shortchanged here

He’s got a higher ceiling than DHO IMO and what do you do wiht DJ?

You play them together

Both guys can guard PFs. It’s not as if Blake is a stretch 4 and this radically changes the offense.

Neither can shoot outside of 3-4 feet right?

BG is very young and developing his outside shot. He’s hitting the 18-20 footer now.

If you get D-12 you need a PF who can stretch, no?

Finding bodies for the 4 spot won't be that hard

Orlando’s been a 50+ win team with the likes of Lewis/Bass/Andersen (before he blew up this year) platooning at the 4.

So D-12 plus unnamed body stretch 4 over BG and DJ?

Hmm. Not sure that D-12 is THAT much better then BG.

why not DJ/Griffin for Howard/Anderson?

Who would you rather have?

the latter

You must be a Magic fan

Or just a basketball man

Howard’s the superior player.

This isn’t a knock on Blake at all, there’s only 4 players I would trade him for all things considered.

Howard
CP3 (oh yay we got him)
Lebron
and MAYBE Durant

Same 3 for me

And Durant is on equal footing with Blake, for me.

That's true in a vacumn but

It wouldn’t make sense to play DJ alongside D-12 so you need to look at the 4-5 combos available and DJ and BG are increasinly hard to beat.

It's an interesting argument.

I might be reacting emotionally, but I think I like the combo of BG/DJ better than DH/DJ. A different power forward… sure, but who?

John Raffo - January 17, 2012 reply

Feel ya on this

I have my concerns.

There's no reason DJ and Howard couldn't co-exist

the Magic should have played Gortat and Howard together more.

Gortat can hit a 10 to 15 foot jumper

as I recall

Not really

like Blake that’s not the strength of his game. He’s more of a 6-8ft in the paint guy with hooks and stuff.

but

DJ can’t even hit a 6-8ft shot… or a 4-6 foot shot… his range is around the basket, and that is DH’s biggest strength.

Howard's got the 6-8 range

in fact he’s Larry Bird compared to DJ. And Howard’s effective range is the same as BG’s is right now. BG can’t really score outside of the paint either. Not efficiently anyways.

I'd have to check but he's starting to hit the 20 footer

based on watching the recent games. He’s going to be lethal from there IMO.

In time

BG has shot a lot of shots with his heels just inside the 3 point line (pretty crappy spot actually) but I don’t think Dwight’s ever come close to that.

Yes, in time - like one to two years

And he will be unstoppable. He’s already at 25 / 12. I think that it would be difficult to trade such a player

And opposing teams are very very happy

that he’s taking those shots. Its nice to be able to make them sure, especially if its towards the end of the shot clock but BG should be attacking the rim every time. Anytime he shoots a jump shot its a bad shot for him.

Like with Camby (and I used to rail on him taking that crooked jumper at the elbow) one of the problems with taking that shot is it takes the best rebounder on the floor out of position to rebound. When Blake drives and misses, at least he can collect his own rebound.

If he can regularly hit the shot he should take it

Define regularly

if he can make them half the time sure. But I promise you its nowhere near 50% right now.

He needs to hit that shot like Pau Gasol in order to truly add this to his repertoire. Notice how Pau rarely shoots it as far out as Blake does…

What percentage is he making?

I need to check that. If he can hit a 20 footer regularly and he’s wide open he should take that shot.

39.9%

Thanks

like I said its a bad shot.

Thanks- clearly not there yet

Oh

just looked it, thats just on jump shots in generally, not even 18-20ft (the worst shot in the game for anyone not named Dirk probably). So that’s with 12-15 ft shots included. So 18-20ft is presumeably lower unless he has Foye-itis.

Huh down from last year?

40.6%

I agree with you eric and jac!

ThaFoX - January 18, 2012 via Android app reply

Jax! damn autocorrect

ThaFoX - January 18, 2012 via Android app reply

I can guarantee its a bad shot

up until he makes 50% of them. He’s not going to get fouled, he’s not going to be able to rebound his own miss. It’s a bad shot/offensive possession for BG to take long jump shots.

Unless he can hit them regularly

Not sure 50% is the number but

He will hit a significant number of them soon – he’s very young.

50% is the low side

you want a TS% over 55% in halfcourt sets. He’s unlikely to get fouled (especially if the defenders are playing 4-5 feet off him like they do now). And he’s not likely to get his own miss unless it happens to bounce back to him. It’s not a good shot for him unless the shot clock is very low.

no one hits 50% of jumpers

Except Ray Allen.

Obviously Blake’s most effective dunking. So why not just have him dunk every time? Because he can’t. There’s a 24 second clock, and sometimes you have to take a lower percentage shot. Blake is moving into a very acceptable percentage on his midrange jumpers, but he’s got a ways to go.

I agree

but the philosophy should always be get as close to the basket as possible and take a shot. Blake taking these low quality shots like this should be the back up back up plan.

The point here though is that

BG will probably ultimately be a better player than D-12 – at least that’s what we are analyzing. He’s going to become a complete superstar in the next couple of years. Since we already have a likely superstar, why are we rushing to ditch him for D-12?
Seems hasty.

Again, haven’t made up my mind – just thinking this through.

Eh probably?

I’d say its more likely he probably won’t be the better player. He’ll never be as good as Howard defensively that’s a given. So he’ll have to be far better offensively to make up for it.

I’d do the deal, heavy heart and all, if it was available, Howard agreed to an extension etc etc.

That's fair

kobe is pretty damn close

but for SP that’s blasphemy

SP hates anything Kobe

data

You know, these stats exist. Kobe’s eFG on jumpers this year is 46.3%, which is an outlier, way better than his career number. If that’s ‘pretty damn close’ fine.

Steve Perrin - January 18, 2012 reply

Well, if we're talking about eFG% (which makes sense since these guys don't shoot 3's)

45% seems to be the goal.

Guys that frequently (60-65% of attempts) and effectively shoot it like Pau Gasol and LaMarcus Aldridge are at 45.3% and 45.6% eFG% respectively.

Guys that frequently and ineffectively shoot it like Jason Thompson, Carl Landy, and Andray Blatche are at 38.1%, 35.9%, and 33.7% respectively. No wonder the Kings suck.

On a side note, I’m not sure how much I trust this stat since it says DJ shoots 33% of his shots as jumpers at 70% efficiency. Wtf? Did I just waste my time?

sucked*

try hoopdata

More detail on this type of thing.

Steve Perrin - January 18, 2012 reply

It probably means

any shot outside of the paint is considered a jumper. DJ shoots really close “jumpers” then just outside of the paint while Blake’s totals include the 20 footers, the fadeaways etc. I think Hollinger usually has a long 2 calculation somewhere. Anyways I prefer if Blake never has a 18-20 foot shot because that would be a waste of his talents. Anyone who watched Chris Webber knows what I’m talking about.

True

Why the fixation on DJ?

Assuming he continues to play at or above his current level, he’s easily tradeable for part(s) that are more compatible with Howard.

How about DJ for David Lee?
DJ for Luis Scola?
DJ for Josh Smith?

Just throwing out names off the top of my head and teams that might have an interest in DJ. The cap/tax would be a significant issue but at that point we’re all in.

Yes

you could definitely trade DJ as well if you wanted to. In a league where Kwame is making 7 million, Chandler 15 m DJ is priced pretty well at 10m.

Sometimes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

We have great chemistry with an up and coming combo. How much better would we end up being?

A lot

good as Blake Griffin is currently, Dwight Howard is much better. Look at the Magic roster real quick, realize they are 9-3 as is and wonder who they have beyond Howard, Redick, Hedo and Anderson that’s any good. I guess Nelson and J Rich should be better than their numbers currently indicate but if you swapped Blake and Howard where would the Magic be right now. 3-9? 5-7?

I'd have to check their record

They are in the East and the friggin’ 76ers are 10-3 while playing no one.

76ers are very good

like the Nuggets they don’t have a obvious star player but they play great D and are pretty deep. They have benefited from a easy schedule however.

Magic have beaten the Blazers (on the road), Knicks (on the road).

Right - i think they are good too

But they haven’t played anyone.

disagree!

the upside of blake is way more than the upside of howard.

ThaFoX - January 18, 2012 via Android app reply

But he asked about four players

The combo of Blake + DJ >>>>than Howard+Anderson.

In order:

1. Howard
2. Blake
3. DJ

distant 4th. Anderson

Have you seen Anderson this year?

Guy is ridiculous. He’s playing as well as if not better than Rashard Lewis ever has.

I wonder if it lasts?

That he shoots 46% pct from 3s?

no probably not. But he is a career 40% 3pt shooter. His attempts are up (to 8 per game) which is great. I’m guessing its sustainable, Dwight gets so much attention so Ryan gets a ton of good looks.

Buddy who works for the Magic

predicted last year that Anderson would break out

He was already very good the last 2 years

but he’s now playing like an all-star. In fact he could make it given the Magic’s record and the fact the game is in Orlando. Wow did the Magic find a gem on the “throw-in” in the Vince Carter trade.

Ok - I'm still thinking through it

90% of Blake's offensive

comes from around the hoop (I made this up, its probably close though). His 18-20ft jumpshot is still a bad thing, he shouldn’t be taking them unless the shot clock dictates it. Also Howard has more post moves than Blake at this point still.

Yea I like that he's being confident with the jumper

But it doesn’t feel game-ready yet. I suppose with no proper off-season, if he’s going to learn to use it, he should use it as much as he can in blowout games where we aren’t close. But there was a close game recently when he took the jumper in the last 2 minutes, and I got mad. Even when he was knocking it down like a pro against the Blazers, no one tries to defend it. He doesn’t spread any defenses because they know that over the long haul, he’s not going to beat anyone that way. Seems like a huge improvement over last year, though (wonder if the stats back that up—-I’m not sure where to find the ones that tell you how efficient a player is from a particular area).

he should be taken them and he should be taken more of them. because he's only gonna get better at it.

blake is starting to hit those outside shots that’s gonna open up is inside game more, give him more confidence 4 his inside game.

ThaFoX - January 18, 2012 via Android app reply

I’d feel like I moved to Orlando, yuk

rouse77 - January 17, 2012 reply

No way

I wouldn’t even trade Blake for Howard straight up.

I agree

The team make up just changes.. Give DH to Lakers and we’ll still beat them.

rouse77 - January 17, 2012 reply

Yeah, the Clips need to stand firm

DHoward is the best center, but Blake is a Superstar in his own right and can still improve. DHoward has peaked. Both have legendary work ethics and relatively clean lifestyles. Still, getting rid of Blake will create a large hole unncessarily. Keep Blake, he means a lot to the franchise.

oasisman - January 17, 2012 reply

Interesting

With the current team you have BG and DJ, a shotblocker. Without BG, you have DJ and Howard, but no PF. What to do with DJ?

DJ to bench, Evans starts at PF?

Clippers outrebound teams by 50

Or plug Cookie in and we only outrebound them by 30

Nah the PF has to be someone to stretch like a Rashard Lewis back in the day

put a 1 in front of that 50

Why would you do that rather than waiting for him to hit the open market?

My money is on Orlando holding on to him and going for it this season. Then you try to convince him his best shot at a title is teaming with CP3 and Blake. If Orlando pulls the trigger before that w/ the Nets, so be it. If they deal him to the Lakers for both 7-footers, I’m OK with that too. The only nightmare scenario is that he goes to the Lakers for Bynum without Pau, and I’d be willing to roll the dice on that not happening.

Because there's no way for the Clips to get the cap space

they’d have to do something like trade Mo, trade Butler, amnesty Gomes to get max cap space. He’s not coming here for 8m a year. Anyways were just spitballing ideas here.

Sign and trade

Don’t have to clear the cap space. Just have to convince them that they either get nothing for Dwight or they get DJ and one other piece to make the salaries match.

That doesn't beat the other teams offers

you still have to set the floor price for Howard at Bynum.

Chicago can get the deal done

Not in free agency

If Dwight says this is where he wants to sign, beating the Lakers offer doesn’t matter. Once he hits the open market, the Magic are beggars, not choosers.

This.

How many times do boltsfan and I have to mention this element??

how many times indeed

We seem to be at an impasse. You and boltsfan keep saying there are no other teams Dwight will want to play for, and everyone else keeps wondering what happened to the Lakers and their Bynum offer.

Steve

“We seem to be at an impasse. You and boltsfan keep saying there are no other teams Dwight will want to play for, and everyone else keeps wondering what happened to the Lakers and their Bynum offer.”

You’re completely misunderstanding me. I never said he would ONLY choose us. I’m saying IF he chooses us.

Very different, my friend.

If

I get that. It’s just a big If, and I have no idea where it came from. What is the justification for it? That has been my question all along.

Steve Perrin - January 18, 2012 reply

It's gone

If Howard plays the season, becomes a FA, he holds all the cards, he says clippers it doesn’t matter if LAL has more to offer if the MAgic want to get something for HOward it has to be DJ and Bledsoe.

Magic can call Howard's bluff too

its the same thing the Mavs tried to do with Lebron. Ultimately the Magic still have the S&T leverage as well. Only teams with cap space can force the Magic hands. The Nets have way more leverage in this kind of scenario.

What?

That’s never been the case with sign-and-trades in the NBA. Otherwise they would never happen. Magic don’t have leverage at that point. Either Dwight walks and they get nothing, or they work out a deal with the team he chooses and get something. That’s the way it has always worked.

No

teams need cap space to sign the free agent in question. Lebron and Bosh and their old teams agreed to their S&Ts after the fact (the Cavs and Raptors might as well get something out of it). Howard can’t say I’m going to sign a max deal with the Clips because the Clips don’t have the cap space. He can say that about the Nets or any other team with cap space but not the Clips.

That's simply not true

This is the reason why sign-and-trades exist in the first place. The old team (in this case the Magic) is the one that officially signs the player, and then they trade him to the new team. The old team can sign him using Bird Rights, and the new team can acquire him by matching salaries, even if over the cap.

I know how it works

what I’m saying is the Clips and Dwight have no control over which teams the Magic would agree to sign and trade him to. The Magic can just say no, DJ/Bledsoe isn’t enough and then sign and trade him to the Nets.

Not if Dwight has decided he doesn't want to play for the Nets.

A lot of ifs there

Nets wouldn’t have to give up anything if they signed him

So Deron Williams, Humphries, Lopez (trade bait) plus some decent bench players like Morrow isn’t too bad to start with. Its an upgrade over his supporting cast in Orlando (who are still 9-3 even though its like 4-5 players right now).

Of course it's a lot of ifs

That wasn’t the friggin point. The point is that the Clippers can make a play for him in free agency, and if they are successful in convincing him to choose LAC, they can then work out a sign-and-trade to make it happen.

you still left out the part

where the Magic have to like what the Clippers are offering (maybe they don’t want DJ at 10m per year? or don’t like Bledsoe as a prospect). Howard doesn’t have a way to force himself onto the Clippers if they can’t just sign him anyways. So it becomes a bidding war for Howard still, which team offers the best trade package.

That's just not the way it works in the NBA

Even the Cavs, as pissed as they were, agreed to do a sign-and-trade with the Heat. The unrestricted free agent ALWAYS chooses where he wants to go, and then that team and the old team work something out.

The point is, if Howard chooses the Clips, the Clips can make it happen. He may not choose them, but if he does, the cap isn’t really an insurmountable problem. All the rest of this BS is just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Ugh

forget it you don’t get it. The Cavs and Raptors had no choice, they were going to sign with the Heat either way whether they got the S&T. Unless Howard wants to make 8m a year he has no way of going to the Clippers unless the Magic sign off on it. That’s a HUGE difference.

if Orlando won't play we can trade DJ elsewhere

We sign Howard outright without a S&T,

Ugh

forget it you don’t get it. This scenario has played out dozens if not hundreds of times in the NBA already, and the player’s old team virtually always goes along. Once the player becomes a UFA, the team has no leverage, so they help him go to the team he wants to play for and take back whatever they can get.

Show me examples where the S&T happened

where it was to a team WITHOUT the cap space to sign the player. I can’t think of any.

The answer to your question is:

Pretty much every sign-and-trade that’s ever been done, because that’s the whole reason the sign-and-trade exists. Even though you say you know the rule, clearly you don’t get how it works, or you wouldn’t be asking this question. What happened with the Heat last year was the exception, not the rule.

From recent memory, off the top of my head, the Warriors didn’t have the cap space for David Lee when they signed him to that massive deal, so when Lee chose them, they worked out the S&T with the Knicks. And Dallas didn’t have the cap space for Shaun Marion, so they swung an S&T with Toronto. But there are literally dozens of examples, because that’s what the sign-and-trade is: a way for teams over the cap to land free agents who want to play for them.

Warriors had cap space

to sign David Lee. In fact they (probably) foolishly added some prospects like Randolph just so they could give him the max. The Knicks who wanted to sign Amare anyways played along to get some extra prospects.

The Raptors essentially traded Shawn Marion to the Mavericks. Well actually it was a 4 team trade. I was going to post the transaction but its rather lengthy.

I know exactly how the S&T works, what you don’t seem to understand (or at least our disagreement is) is the Clippers cannot sign Dwight Howard. Its not the same as Melo who the Knicks could have signed 3-4 months later in the summer. It’s not Bosh or Lebron who were going to sign with the Heat for less than the max. If Howard can say he ONLY wants to be S&T to the Clippers but the Magic don’t have to play along. If they don’t, if Howard really wants to come to the Clips he’d have to take way less money. Completely different realities.

Apparently that's the way it works in Chuckland

Just not in the NBA.

boltsfan21 - January 18, 2012 reply

So?

It doesn’t matter if the Magic like what the Clippers are offering. If Dwight is dead set on the Clippers and won’t play for anyone else, then it’s the Clippers or nothing.

Otherwise, don’t you think the Cavs would have just done a LeBron sign-and-trade with another team besides the Heat? The Mavericks were willing sign-and-trade partners, for example.

Its not the Clippers or nothing

because the Clippers would only be able to offer 8m. It would be the Nets or nothing.

"what I’m saying is the Clips and Dwight have no control over which teams the Magic would agree to sign and trade him to. The Magic can just say no, DJ/Bledsoe isn’t enough and then sign and trade him to the Nets."

Umm, you do realize only Dwight can consent to the SIGN part of a SIGN and Trade right?

I do

I meant the Magic still have to agree to signing him and trading him to the Clips. Dwight can’t just waltz into the Clippers and get a max deal and the Magic have no say. The Magic would have to like what they got back to do the S&T.

Both you and Bolts have a point

I’m sure Orlando would rather have the Clips’ something than NJ’s nothing. So Dwight would have some leverage, albeit not complete leverage. He might force the Magic to cooperate with the Clips offer, “or else I’ll sign with NJ!” In that scenario, the Lakers might enter the picture with their own sign and trade offer, and maybe the Magic would opt for that over the Clips. But I think Howard could still threaten to sign with NJ, if his choices are Clips, NJ, and then Lakers.

A lot of ifs, indeed.

SilverClip - January 17, 2012 reply

This

thank you for writing this out.

And if you don't believe me, how about Larry Coon

81. Why would teams or players want to do a sign-and-trade?

Teams benefit because it allows them to get something in return for players they would otherwise lose to free agency. Players benefit because they can get a richer contract, and/or play for a team that is over the salary cap and otherwise wouldn’t be able to afford them. Unlike the new team, the player’s original team can use the various Bird exceptions (as long as the player qualifies) to sign the player without regard to the cap. Also, if the player’s original team has full Bird rights, they can offer the player larger raises (10.5%, as opposed to 8%) and more seasons (six, as opposed to five — see question number 47 for more information).

So sign-and-trade is a useful tool for teams that are capped-out and unable to offer players large contracts.

I know the rule

that’s not the point, the Magic would not have to trade them for the Clippers package, not if the Lakers can offer Bynum in a sign and trade as well.

Not if Dwight has decided he prefers the Clippers to the Lakers

It’s not the same as an in-season trade with Dwight under contract. Orlando would not get to choose the destination. The only thing they could do is be dicks and say they won’t do any S&Ts, and force DH12 to choose a team with cap space. But that’s cutting off their nose to spite their face, because then they get nothing back.

Well that's almost certainly not going to happen

Howard can say that but the Magic can say no, we want Bynum over DJ so if you want your max money and years you agree to a deal with the Lakers and not the Clips. And that point Howard’s only options are to sign with a team with cap space like the Nets that also can’t offer him the “real” max without a sign and trade to scare the Magic into the “might as well get something for him” mode.

Sure, whatever you say

In reality that NEVER happens.

which

a player picking the Clippers over the Lakers?

Touche

That also never happens. But we’ve also never had the better nucleus.

I don’t mean to jump in the middle of this, but Howard’s contract would expressly require the Magic to trade him to a team of his choosing. It’s not like they can bait and switch him where he signs with them, expecting a trade to the Clippers, and the Magic trade him to the Nets instead.

Not sure if that’s where you were going with this.

No that's no where I was going with it

I’m saying he can’t sign a contract with the Clippers outright, the Magic have to agree to their compensation first.

Yes

Trading Griffin is an idiotic idea.

Either wait until free agency, or swoop in with a Griffinless offer when the Magic inevitably become desperate.

Blake is a truly special, once in a generation player

Don’t forget his intangibles, his drive and work ethic. Not sure Howard has that. He seems to shrink in the moment. Not a killer (I love violent sports adjectives).

Another Dwight Howard will come along before another Blake Griffin does.

I think we would all regret trading away Blake Griffin sooner rather than later.

Luckily...

I strongly doubt trading Griffin is even being considered.

Of course not

I believe that Otis Smith asked Olshey for Blake at the beginning of free agency, and Neil all but hung up on him.

In any event, I would rather get close to a title with Blake than win with Howard. Watching Blake is the fun part. Winning a championship as a fan is fun for about a day, and then you realize that it didn’t really matter.

I would have to assume the following

a) Howard didn’t agree to an extension either
b) the Clippers didnt have CP3 yet
c) the Magic ask for more than Griffin

Are you kidding?

One Clippers championship would be enjoyable FOREVER. No more Laker fans getting arrogant about their banners, because we’d have a banner up there too. The dumb Clipper jokes would finally be 100% extinguished… the media could focus their ire on the Nets or the Cavs for a change.

I wouldn't know

None of the teams I root for has EVER won a championship. I’m pretty sure I’d like to experience it once before I die, and I really don’t care who is wearing the uniforms.

No kidding.

Of course, I can’t say I’m surprised that a Cowboys fan treats championships like they’re toilet paper.

LOL

HEY! >:(

Xfactor26 - January 17, 2012 reply

Agreed

Surprised the discussion has even moved in this direction. I’d love to add him to our Big 2, but not make him part of a new Big 2.

I get the idea of considering trading Blake for Dwight straight up.

But Blake will only get better. Dwight is a better defender, but that’s why we have DJ.

Blake will be the face of the league if he isn’t already.

Do. Not. Trade. Him.

PR-wise

Blake is better for us, I agree wholeheartedly. Blake is loved by the media, and he seems to be more of a name internationally. I’ve got nothing to back this up other than my observations of comments. Any international citizens want to chime in on this? Is Dwight known worldwide too?

It should also be noted that trading Griffin for Dwight midseason will never happen.

It’s in Dwight’s best interests to opt out and sign a new deal with his new team. That means no Trade and Extend.

What if we send over Blake and DJ, but in the off-season Cuban or Prokhorov give Dwight the hard sell? He has no allegiance to us, he could bolt for nothing. We could offer a bigger contract, I don’t want to run the risk of being FEltoned to the max.

We either get him in a S&T for DJ and spare parts or let him go wherever else he wants.

Of course trading Dwight

would require him to agree to an extension prior. It’s different than the CP3 situation since CP3 picked up his option. Not that Howard would leave a team with CP3, DJ, Butler and Billups anyways.

It's no different from CP3.

Chris was ready to opt out and sign a five year deal with the Lakers. Before the trade, he was obviously hesitant to do the same with us. Maybe that’s changed now, but the opting in was a show of good faith.

Dwight doesn’t have to opt in to his last year as proof of staying because of CP3.

But even then we only have his word he signs a five year deal with us.

Just Tweeted by Chris Sheridan:

“Let me clarify something, even though it was clearly stated in yesterday’s story, #Clippers are on D.Howard’s wish list, not trade list.”

The S&T option for DJ and parts looks even better.

so what does sheridan mean

all this is hot air?

No

He means that the Clippers are a team Howard would like to go to, but they are not on the list of teams that Orlando has given permission for his agents to speak with.

thats what I was thinking

Why?

How do you get to “The S&T option for DJ and parts looks even better”?

Dwight has the Clippers on his last as a destinaton if he becomes a Free Agent after the season.

Dwight can threaten to sign with us outright to facilitate a much quicker and painful transaction. If worse come to worst, Mo and DJ can easily be ditched for second round picks.

ORL will know this. And thus consent to a S&T or face getting literally nothing for Dwight.

painLESS*

I believe this could be possible

but the Clips would also have to amnesty Gomes and I think renounce Billups (not sure what his cap hold would be).

What is most laughable to me about this

Is that for the last month or so every person on this site has been at sheridan’s throat, saying he isn’t a real journalist, he makes up rumors, and ranks teams controversially to generate page views.

but as soon as he puts Howard and the Clippers in the same sentence… WHAM! Everyone is talking about what he has to say.

We can only bemoan Cookie and crack Reggie ball jokes for so long

Give us a day and we’ll be over the D12 rumors.

Hey, Reggie ball jokes are forever timeless

and bemoaning Cook is as well, apparently

SilverClip - January 17, 2012 reply

a few of us have

I take him and his sources as real

just because he says the clippers will lose blah blah blah

doesn’t discredit his sources on subjects like these

His sources lost my faith during the lockout

Surely different sources, but I started taking what Sheridan says with a grain of salt.

Blogs are built on speculation!

It’s just more fun to talk about right now with no marquee (Lakers/Heat) game coming up.

I don’t think anyone thinks this will happen.

madglove - January 17, 2012 reply

you are incorrect

he is reporting what his sources said

and whatever you think, unnamed sources have great power ask Richard Nixon

who is Richard Nixon? What team did he play for? what era?

you are confused

I’m not sure you understood my comment.

LJ was saying it’s funny how everyone on this blog is commenting on Sheridan’s report even though most discredited him. I responded by saying that people are commenting because it’s fun to speculate on what could happen.

madglove - January 17, 2012 reply

stand corrected

my bad

spank me softly

Here's the thing, though...

Sheridan is SUCH a Clipper hater, that unless he had really good sources, he’d probably have buried the story in favor of more “CP3, Dwight, Griffin, and every other star should go to the Lakers ASAP” crapola.

And for the record...

I don’t doubt Sheridan’s sources or his journalism. But his constant Clipper bashing is just grating. It was totally satisfying to see him have to eat crow when we didn’t go 0-3 against the Blazers, Heat, and Lakers.

You guys are crazy...

if you want to give up Blake for Dwight. Are you kidding me?! We need a player like Blake, to define the franchise. To be the face of our franchise. Plus, he’s 22! At age 22, I don’t think Dwight had the same skills as Blake, which means Blake can be a WAY better player than Dwight. And whoever said that Blake’s jumpers are not consistent, when did Dwight develop a 15-ft jumper? This really sickens me, and all of these chatter about Blake, Mo, Bled for Dwight sounds like Laker fans who thinks they can get Howard for Bynum. I love the structure of our team right now and I want Blake to retire as a Clipper. And if we want “good character” guys, Blake has a way better character than Dwight. All of this continuing non-sense, using the media to let the Magic know he wants out. Let’s put this to rest. Dwight is not coming to Los Angeles.

Hengtime81 - January 17, 2012 reply

Hypothetical move

If you trade Blake for Howard how much of a lateral move is that? Intangibles can be debated till our mouths run dry, but all for what? Disrupting an up and coming franchise, free agents that signed with team because of that player (Blake), and a fan base that’s been loyal to the desolate franchise and now, for once, has hope all because of Blake Griffin.

Are the Clippers are a championship contender? Maybe, maybe not. However, are they any closer to a championship than the Magic are currently? As the rosters stand now I’d say yes. Neil Olshey is a smart man – I can’t see this trade ever going through.

yaggiefresh - January 17, 2012 reply

But people were worried about “disrupting an up and coming franchise” when it came to the Paul for Gordon deal. I think it’s simpler than that. Look at the team before and after, and figure out which is better. Don’t try to overthink this stuff.

Grand Tanyon Sturtze - January 17, 2012 reply

I loved EJ

and yes, was saddened by the trade initially but after 2 minutes the prospect of the all-mighty wins sank in. EJ is not Blake. Make that trade again a million times over.

This team is infinitely better and on its worst nights still has a strong chance to beat most teams.

yaggiefresh - January 17, 2012 reply

We're not

Blake’s a btr scorer. Scoring is more important.

oasisman - January 17, 2012 reply

+1 to yaggiefresh on the lateral move comment

I just don’t know that this really does that much.

Yeah I have to agree with the guys above on Blake/DJ > Howard/Anderson

I mean Blake is a better scorer, he’s got less of an ego IMO, and DJ’s probably going to be a more reliable starter than Anderson. Sure Anderson’s killing it this year but his stats. are massively inflated, I can’t/don’t have time to find the cite (maybe someone else can?) but Anderson’s percentages from beyond 20 are both ridiculous(ly good) and totally unsustainable. I just wouldn’t rock this boat for Howard.

Grand Tanyon Sturtze - January 17, 2012 reply

the only way this deal would go through is by a third team

houston or golden state come to mind…they may want DJ

nauticazn25 - January 17, 2012 reply

Golden State wanted DJ in the offseason...