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Chris Paul, Blake Griffin and All Star Voting

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Let's just start by saying that All Star voting is over. I mean, obviously voting is still open, but the preliminary results released Thursday are completely unsurprising, and the players currently ahead in the voting will indeed be your All Star starters. It's done. Of course, it was done before it started, but the point is it's done.

There are a couple of reasons for this - first of all, in most cases, there's simply a correct answer, and even the most ardent contrarian would find it difficult to argue against the choice. Dwight Howard? Yup, he's the starting center in the East. I mean, you can have all kinds of fun with the LeBron-Kobe debate, but it doesn't extend to "Is LeBron one of the two best forwards in the Eastern Conference?" or "Is Kobe one of the two best guards in the Western Conference?"

Star-divide

By my count, seven of the ten starters (including the entire Eastern Conference lineup) fall into the consensus pick category. Most experts, and the vast majority of the fans, would agree that the player is the correct choice as All Star starter. Bear in mind that this is all based on historical performance, bolstered by two weeks worth of games that indicate these players have not suffered serious decline; it goes without saying that if any of these players suddenly entered a massive slump, you could argue against them, but I don't expect that to happen. The no-brainers then, with any necessary additional explanation, are as follows:

  • Derrick Rose, East guard - Did he deserve to win the MVP last season? No. Is he one of the two best guards in the Eastern Conference? Wages of Wins style Rajon Rondo love aside, sure he is. It also helps that Deron Williams has had a very bad start to the season by his standards.
  • Dwyane Wade, East guard - Other than making some sort of "he's been hurt, he shouldn't start" argument, Wade is obviously the best guard in the East. He's off to a relatively slow start, but he'll be fine.
  • Carmelo Anthony, East forward - I've never been a big fan of Carmelo, but honestly who are the alternatives at forward in the East? Amare? Bosh? Boozer? Carmelo is the popular choice, and pretty much the correct one as well.
  • LeBron James, East forward - Late game situations aside, this is the ultimate no-brainer.
  • Dwight Howard, East center - Oops, I was wrong above, THIS is the ultimate no-brainer.
  • Kobe Bryant, West guard - Who would you argue for other than Kobe? Russell Westbrook? He wishes he were Kobe - he has all the flaws, without nearly all the skills. Ginobili is a great player who doesn't get the recognition he deserves in these sorts of things, but he's hurt so the point is moot.
  • Chris Paul, West guard - Kyle Lowry has had a great start to the season, but Paul is so far superior on his career that I think we can assume that he'll be the better choice in the end.

That leaves three other starters, all in the West, where we know who they will be, but you could make a viable argument for someone else. Let's look at them.

West center. Andrew Bynum will be named the All Star starter at center in the West. Why? Because (1) he plays for the Lakers, and (2) there's no clear-cut alternative. Given the relative anonymity of the other candidates (guys like Marcin Gortat, Marc Gasol and Nene) Bynum would have to play terribly not to win the popular vote, and he's not playing terribly - he's playing really damn well. Al Jefferson might be the best alternative, but he's not even really a center. Let's face it - if DeAndre Jordan is currently second, we see the impact of market size and popularity in the voting process pretty clearly. Bynum will win if he doesn't get hurt, and he's probably the right choice.

West forwards. Kevin Durant and Blake Griffin are currently leading the voting, and they will win. I don't mean to imply in any way that either of them are less than deserving of the honor of starting in the All Star Game. The only reason that these are not complete no-brainers is because of the insane depth at the forward position in the Western Conference. By my count, their are six forwards in the West that are deeply worthy of All Star consideration, and that's not counting the injured Zach Randolph or the declining Tim Duncan (and Duncan will no doubt get significant consideration as a lifetime achievement award). In addition to Durant and Griffin, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol and Dirk Nowiztki would all be valid starters at forward in the West. And that's ignoring Paul Millsap who is playing great in Utah. The shame of this isn't that only two of those guys can start, but that some of them will likely be left off the team altogether due to the glut at the position. (If you gave both wild card spots and the reserve center spot to these guys, you could squeeze them all in, but that's unlikely.)

Durant and Griffin will win because this is a popularity contest, and they're the most popular. It's just nice that they are also ultimately worthy of the honor. Love is the only other candidate who approaches the fan appeal of Durant or Griffin, and frankly rebounding and three point shooting don't make great highlight reels quite like monster dunks.

Incidentally, I predicted that Griffin would start in the All Star game back in May. It wasn't super-insightful or anything, but I did do it. If you want more explanation of why he'll start you can read that post, as it goes into a lot of depth on the subject. There's even a cool chart.

So there you have it. Yes, there will be two Los Angeles Clippers starting in the All Star Game in Orlando in February. No, a Los Angeles Clipper has never started in an All Star Game before. (World B. Free was a starter as a San Diego Clipper in 1980.) And yes, four of the five starters for the West will come from Los Angeles, giving the rest of the country one more reason to hate LA.

0 recs  |  67 comments

Comments

I agree this is totally a popularity contest

and played as a weekend showcase event. This is not like picking the Olympic Team.
Although it does lose some credibility if DJ makes the team at this early stage in his career.

Has a more unlikely sentence ever been written?
Yes, there will be two Los Angeles Clippers starting in the All Star Game
Unbelievable.

+1

And I fogot that World B. Free started an all-star game.

kind of like

seeing us at 5-3, in the playoff race. When was the last time that we were over .500? Or actually in the playoff standings?

Weird that we're 5-3, and we're not completely happy. Maybe even a little disappointed? This is weird.
looking at the schedule

5-3 is solid. They have benefited from a lot of rest though. I think Caron and Billups will struggle on the back to backs coming up as the schedule gets crazy compact.

Obvious Picks

I consider Bynum and Durant obvious starters…I mean, who would go over them? You can argue Love, Aldridge, Gasol, Dirk over Griffin, but over Durant? No way.

Agree on Durant

As for Bynum … well, I guess he’s obvious given the current voting format, but that doesn’t mean he’s obvious in the sense of, “clearly this guy should be one of the 5 starters in the West.” If you were really picking the best team, you’d be sorely tempted to use Dirk, Pau, or LMA at the 5, wouldn’t you?

I would, if they were available at the 5.
Instinctively, i say that there is no way I take bynum if I'm not limited by the NBA's positions

But looking further… Im’ a homer, I take Blake. I would like to take Dirk, but neither of thoose two can defend. LMA, I still don’t think is the type of defender I want. Same applies for Love, who I wouldn’t put at the 5 anyways. So it’s Pau or bynum off of that list. In a vacuum, it’s Pau, but, looking for a big defensive center… it might be Bynum… am I enough of a homer to take DJ over bynum… maybe =)

Over Bynum?

Al Jefferson? Marcin Gortat? Marc Gasol? Gasol and Jefferson have better career resumes. Gortat is putting up great numbers (on a bad team). If Bynum disappears in the next four weeks (which he has done many times in his career) and Jefferson plays great, it would be super easy to make a case for other players on the center ballot.

But it won’t happen.

Better career resumes

But I think just due to health. When he’s healthy, isn’t Bynum better than all those other guys?

(Sidenote: I still think it’s a total joke to compare him to Dwight Howard.)

perhaps

but my logic in saying he is an obvious pick was more that I knew he would win easily before voting started, barring a Howard trade to the west.

But..

My point is that all 10 are obvious

That Is Very Bad All-Star News For Clippers Fans

Two Clippers Blake and CP3 are going to wind up starting on the same side of the ball as two Lakers? Disgusting. LOL

Douglas Adams lives
Russell Westbrook? He wishes he were Kobe – he has all the flaws, without nearly all the skills.

Great quote.

ouch...

closer to home analogy, he plays like every guy at LA fitness or 24 hr fitness…

so off topic but

he was working out at Equinox in Westwood in the off season

he played for LA Rockfish in AAU
I'm a Westbrook fan

There is a simmering power struggle between Durant and Westbrook. Eventually Westbrook will have to go somewhere else. They can’t be long term teammates, as neither wants to accept being the 2nd option.

I loved Russell at UCLA

but he wasn’t a superstar, and I still don’t think he is. He’s got a very good game, but when he gets included on a list of the top 7 players in the game, I just roll my eyes. He would and should be great as Durant’s sidekick, a la Pippen. Be that’s all.

at max money (which he'll get somewhere)

I don’t think he is the ideal sidekick for Durant. He is a good player, but you could complement Durant more efficiently by getting a pass first point guard like Rondo and another solid rotation player.

I’m predicting OKC will have some difficult decisions to make the next few seasons. They had the obvious advantage that almost all of their starters were on rookie deals.

but Rubio has more votes than Russell and Steve Nash?

what a joke this all star voting is. i demand a BCS-like system voted by fans, coaches, and computer stats.

That will normalize

First set of results always has some anomalies. Minnesota (or Spain?) must have done a big push. Rubio will not finish third when all is said and done. Fans are bad at these things, but they’re not that bad.

hmm mark my words

In three years, it will be Rose and Westbrook that will be the top point guards in the league. These two are matchup nightmares for most point guards. If they are smart, they will realize that and be exploiting that regularly.

CP3? :(
no,eric bledsoe
I think CP3 will age well, like Jason Kidd

CP3 doesn’t use athleticism like rose/westbrook… he uses his hips and shoulders to create good position and his dribbling skills aren’t going to fade.

Paul is much more cut from the Nash/Kidd mold.

"Derrick Rose, East guard - Did he deserve to win the MVP last season? No."

Huh?

Rose is overrated and overhyped
I agree

He is a fantastic ball player, but he’s still not even in the world of LeBron. He’s showing that he can improve his game, though. Still, he’s lame on D.

and his jumpshot

could use work

Really improving tho

If he played D, cut down on TOs (maybe just 1 less TO per game), and scored closer to 50% FGs, he’d be a lot closer to LeBron status. Right now he’s very, very, very good… but when you have guys playing better…

Then again, this is a completely stat-based analysis. Rose did have his team playing extremely well and winning the most games in the league. And unlike San Antonio, Rose is the clear leader of the team. In that way, maybe the MVP award makes a little more sense.

I would have sent my vote to a dark horse

like Dirk, or Manu last year.

Guess you guys didn't see his stat line against us.
But I did see his stat line from the entire 2010-2011 season, so I'll go with that one...
Okay, I'll bite.

Rose was the best player on the best team. I guess you could argue the Spurs, but they pretty much flamed out.

This is Rose’s stat line from his MVP year:

10-11 CHI 81 81 37.4 0.445 0.332 0.858 1.0 3.1 4.1 7.7 1.0 0.6 3.43 1.68 25.0

I want to compare this to the last 3 MVP’s. LeBron, LeBron, and Kobe.

LeBron:

08-09 CLE 81 81 37.7 0.489 0.344 0.780 1.3 6.3 7.6 7.2 1.7 1.2 2.98 1.72 28.4
09-10 CLE 76 76 39.0 0.503 0.333 0.767 0.9 6.4 7.3 8.6 1.6 1.0 3.43 1.57 29.7

Kobe:

07-08 LAL 82 82 38.9 0.459 0.361 0.840 1.1 5.2 6.3 5.4 1.8 0.5 3.13 2.77 28.3

LeBron’s stats are always ridiculous. So granted he gets the nod, but how are Rose’s numbers not MVP-level?

You also have to take into account the jump in scoring he saw (as well as the slight bumps in his RPG and APG to see he really deserved it:

09-10 CHI 78 78 36.8 0.489 0.267 0.766 0.8 2.9 3.8 6.0 0.7 0.4 2.78 1.23 20.8

In all three of those, LeBron probably should have won though

Kobe really didn’t have that great of a season compared to some of his others, but I think he got the award because his team was winning (for the first time in a while) and he had been snubbed back in 05-06.

I could break it down if I had more time, but at a high level if you just look at advanced stats like PER and Win Shares, Kobe and Rose are a good bit below LeBron. To be fair, LeBron is a lot bigger and more of a rebounder than either of them, but even if you cut that out of the equation, LeBron’s FG% is just way higher. That’s the majority of why his PER and WS are a lot higher.

Regarding improvement, I don’t know if that should have any effect on his MVP status since there’s an MIP award too.

In the end though, see my conversations below about the definition of MVP and whether it’s the best player in the league, or the best player on the best team. Based on that difference in definition, I can see arguments either way for Rose as MVP. The bottom line is that James was still the best player last year, and his team won a ton of games, but because he had Wade on his team posting pretty awesome numbers as well, it diminished his standing as being “the player whose team couldn’t live without him.”

Exactly.

The MVP has always taken into consideration a team’s WIN-LOSS record. Otherwise, Kevin Love or somebody would be winning it every year.

To me, LeBron forfeited any chances of winning not five, not six, not seven, not eight MVP awards when he became Wade’s lackey.

I don’t care how good his stats are, they’re not that much better than Wade’s and he’s certainly not even the best player on his team. Stat-stuffing only gets you so far.

Ergo, D-Rose was D-MVP.

PER and Win shares

don’t do it for me. They are just a way to weigh different stats.

nope - he was definitely MVP worthy last year

he was the best player on the best regular season team last year – hard to argue with that
how can the guy be overrated and over-hyped when many consider Wade (ESPN #3), CP3 (ESPN #4), and Kobe (ESPN #7) to be better than Rose (ESPN #8)?

I have no problems with the ESPN rankings by the way. I think Rose is right where he is at #8. Definitely not over-rated and over-hyped.

Right

As I said in another comment up there, even statistically speaking he was the best player on the team with the most wins (some stats say he’s tied with Noah, but others say he’s the best). From that standpoint, I get the MVP vote. But if you’re just comparing stats-to-stats, he wasn’t the best player in the league, by a long shot. So it really just comes to how you define an MVP. Is it the best player in the league? Because then Rose probably shouldn’t win. But is it the player whose team values him the highest? Then voting for the best player on the best team sounds pretty fair.

The overrated/overhyped (for me anyway) was just based on the idea that MVP = best player in the league. If he’s ranked #8, that sounds good to me.

Seems like a contradiction

You think 8th is about right, yet he was the MVP, which implies first. He’s fantastic. But unless MVP literally stands for “Best player on the team with the best record” (which, last I checked would be BPTWBR, not MVP) then he should not have won that award.

So that's where the differentiation lies

If MVP = best player in the league, then Rose probably wasn’t the right choice.
If MVP = best player on the team with the best record, then Rose was probably the right choice.

I always thought the MVP is the player whose team would miss the most. Guys like LeBron in Cleveland, Steve Nash in Phoenix, Kobe in LA, Iverson in Philly, Dirk in Dallas, or Garnett in Minnesota made a lot of sense to me.

I would have gone with Dirk most likely because

I remember him missing games earlly in the season and the Mavs really floundering until he returned. Every one else on that team was a role player surrounding Dirk, the star.

LJ, I think you're wrong!!!
What part did you not understand?
With the starters pretty much set in stone, I'm anxious to see who will be voted in by the coaches.

In the West, 4 spots open up (D-Will, Ginobili, Melo and probably Duncan). Bynum and Aldridge will probably take 2 of those spots. Who gets the other 2? Parker? Lowry? Ellis? Gallo? Harden? Millsap? M. Gasol? Lawson?

In the East, they add Melo but lose Horford. Garnett and Pierce may be on their way out. Does Josh Smith finally get his chance? Will Hibbert, Monroe or Bargnani be given any consideration?

I want to see a bargnani-durant matchup

but bynum will start, so no need for coaches to vote him in. Pau will take that spot.

Yes, Bynum will be voted, but he is still going to take up one of the 4 spots that has been vacated.

In other words, I’m expecting 8 All-Stars (i.e. Love, Pau, Westbrook, & Dirk in addition to BG, CP3, KD & Kobe) from last year to remain all-stars this year. Bynum will be a new addition along with Aldridge. The other 2 spots are up for grabs.

oh when you said 4 spots

I thought you meant left after the starters… I was a little confused.

Monroe

Monroe has no chance unless Detroit plays better. If Indiana keeps winning, then someone will make it from there – Hibbert or Granger or West. (Not that Granger or West are deserving based on current numbers, but they have name recognition and they will probably play better between now and then.)

Chicago will get someone else beyond Rose, which they didn’t last year. Probably Boozer or Noah if not both.

The Pistons have been terrible, but have had some tough competition so far. 9 of their 12 games have been against playoff teams. The record does hurt Monroe’s chances, but I think he’s outplaying a lot of the other guys that will be considered for a spot. If they can close the gap some, he should at least be considered.

Noah has not been playing all that well and is not looking like the same player he was last year. Boozer has been so-so. Many Bull fans believe that he and Boozer are not a great combination. Deng started off hot, but has had some ho-hum games over the last 6. It was looking like Deng really had a strong case, but there’s still time for him to recover and get back on track.

I’m not going to lie, I completely overlooked Granger. He’s been struggling, but the Pacers have been winning. I did think about West, but saw that he was only averaging 11 & 7.

One thing...

Elton Brand, Chicago versus Dale Davis, Indiana 2000. Compare the numbers and tell me which one made the All Star team. Hint, it wasn’t the one from the team with the losing record.

I know that it doesn't happen often. Last year was an exception with both Griffin and Love.

People complained like there was no tomorrow. Now, people are saying they are possibly the 2 best PF’s in the game. I’m just throwing out some names that happen to be playing well atm. No locks.

Deron Williams is considered a top 10-15 player that would typically be thought of as an all-star, but his team has the same amount of wins as Detroit. Boston wouldn’t make the playoffs if they started today. They have yet to beat a team not named the Wizards, Nets or Pistons. Ouch.

Well if Bynum is his usual self and gets hurt then we would have 3 clippers.

D.J. is second in the voting for centers and that would make him the starter.
Now that would be totally awesome to have three starting Clipper All Stars.

2nd place

doesn’t mean anything for injury replacement. Those are up to Stern. He’ll probably put in like Okafor, so someone will buy the hornets.

correct.

If Bynum were hurt tomorrow, and everyone stopped voting for him because of it, and consequently DJ finished first, that’s the only way he starts. But if Bynum is hurt tomorrow, he still wins the fan vote. After China, the next biggest country in fan voting is Laker Nation.

should clarify too

Stern doesn’t need to choose a center as an injury replacement either. I think he usually tries and have the injury replacement be close in position, but like Kaman replaced Roy (and Lee replaced Iverson that year too, lol), so it really doesn’t matter, just whoever they kind of view as the biggest snub that year.

I really would not want to see DJ make it unless he truly earned and deserved it.

There would be a lot of pressure/attention on the Clippers if they produced 3 all-stars. Everyone would whine and complain.

yeah

I want DJ to make it in a couple of years. Now? Not so much. He isn’t mature enough.

I wished the voting format would be different

Instead of the usual 2 guard, 2 forwards, 1 center, they should try 1 point guard, 2 wings, 2 big men.

Yea, I agree

It would alleviate the glut. Gasol and Nowiztki would shove Bynum out. It ought to be those two, Griffin, Aldridge and Love as the representative bigs. Starters, who knows? But then you have Byrant and Durant on the wings, Paul and Lowry at PG. Room for three more, I believe. Seems like you could easily fill those spots with more PGs. I wonder if EJ will be a worthy candidate.

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